Just say no to Ethanol!

Kelleyo · **Posted:** Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:42 am

Well Said LouC

ric · **Posted:** Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:26 am

I just think it's a lot easier to blame lack of maintenance on E10. The "up to 10%" ethanol has zero affect on anything. It's even been proven to a scientific fact that E85 has zero effect on rubber/aluminum/etc. That's why it's E85 not E100... the 15% gasoline is enough.

I raced gokarts for YEARS when I was a kid using methanol. That stuff is way more toxic then ethanol. Never had any problems that were related to the fuel and it doing any damage to anything. You would have to leave it in an open container for WEEKS if not months to get any kind of water in it.

wkearney99 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:20 am

It's indeed blaming the wrong things. The use of crappy materials in gas tanks led to their problems with ethanol (although by how much is questionable). Then there's the whole carb/fuel injection arguments that totally ignore how much more efficient FI systems are, for consumption AND for emissions. Burning less, more efficiently, is a LOT better for ALL of us, not just throwbacks in love with obsolete crap.

Then there's the unsupported claims of lack of engineering or unrelated comparisons. A sure sign of weak and unsupportable arguments.

I'm no fan of the subsidies and market distortions related to corn ethanol. But it has it's value and is quite likely here to say. Upgrade and move on with life.

ric · **Posted:** Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:52 am

wkearney99 wrote:

It's indeed blaming the wrong things. The use of crappy materials in gas tanks led to their problems with ethanol (although by how much is questionable). Then there's the whole carb/fuel injection arguments that totally ignore how much more efficient FI systems are, for consumption AND for emissions. Burning less, more efficiently, is a LOT better for ALL of us, not just throwbacks in love with obsolete crap.

Then there's the unsupported claims of lack of engineering or unrelated comparisons. A sure sign of weak and unsupportable arguments.

I'm no fan of the subsidies and market distortions related to corn ethanol. But it has it's value and is quite likely here to say. Upgrade and move on with life.

Running e10 in a boat doesn't break your carburetor or do anything magical like that. I'll say it once and I'll say it again, you DO have to re-tune the carburetor and ignition to run E10. It's not optional. Without making changes for the different fuel, the engine will run poorly. It will hesitate, sputter, nearly stall on a fast punch of the throttle, etc. Why? Because E10 burns slower and requires a tad more fuel then E0. In simple terms.... the engine is running lean. Fuel injection has zero issues doing the slight retune needed.

Kelleyo · **Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:18 pm

What a total waste of money.

http://www.ajc.com/business/georgia-ethanol-plant-sold-1289567.html

298VISTA2000 · **Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:22 pm

Kelleyo wrote:

What a total waste of money.

Most of this "Go-Green" BS is a waste of $$. Now that the gov't cut off the subsidies for ethanol producers, get ready for our watered-down gas prices to rise. Let us know when that gas station of yours that sells both real and fake gas, quits selling the fake gas altogether due to it costing more. LOL.

LouC · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:38 pm

Part of the bad news with ethanol, is how it is formulated. It is not mixed at the refinery and not pumped through their pipelines. Why? Too corrosive. It is mixed in the tanker truck. And guess what was found here in LI, and Ct, when the ethanol issues started? Well, what you thought was E-10, was E-20, 25, as high as E-30. So no wonder, there were problems with rotted fuel lines, collapsed primer bulbs, bad fuel floats in carbs, etc. If it's not strictly regulated, there will be problems. You're really kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Go back and read, what the Boat US website has on the tests done by marine manufacturers. They say, E-15 caused damage and poor performance. So what will E-20 cause, ask yourself that.

And remember, it's too corrosive for the oil company's own pipelines....

As far as carb vs FI, well for an old boat carb is just fine. As long as the gaskets and floats will stand up to ethanol, I have no need or desire for an FI boat, with a set of injectors that are very pricey to replace and a 700 dollar fuel pump (ask Volvo owners).
A Rochester Q-Jet can be rebuilt for 150 or less, and a mechanical fuel pump can be replaced for even less. FI is nice and of course the engine runs better but with the quality of gas being as poor as it is, not really well regulated with respect to ethanol, I'll take the low tech solution.

ric · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:54 pm

There's no issue with a carbbed boat and E10/E15/E85.... it will run on it just fine after it's re-jetted and the ignition advanced.

Don't expect to throw E10 or Ewhatever in your carbbed boat and it to run flawless. It won't. It wasn't tuned for it. The fuel burns slower and requires more of it compared to E0. What is the end result? An un-tuned boat running E10 will hesitate and stumble. Go visit your favorite boat engine tuner, have them stick it in the pool and re-tune the carb and ignition while it has E10 in it the tank and they will make it run just like new.

Fuel injected boats do not have this issue. They have a computer and sensors to re-adjust the fuel mixture and ignition timing automatically. Carbureted boats do not, they left the factory with a tune for straight gasoline, not Ewhatever. It's not rocket science. There's nothing wrong with anything. Different fuels burn at different rates, and with our 1920 technology carburetors they do not adapt on their own.

People with carburated cars have to do the same thing if they want optimal performance on E10. I had to readjust my 1978 MG-B. It ran horrible on it. Now it runs no different as if it was on regular gas.

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:39 pm

ric wrote:

Don't expect to throw E10 or Ewhatever in your carbbed boat and it to run flawless. It won't. It wasn't tuned for it.

Fuel injected boats do not have this issue. They have a computer and sensors to re-adjust the fuel mixture and ignition timing automatically.

Ric, with all due respect, you have been fed some mis-information along the way. Carbureted engines run fine on E-10 with no re-jetting or timing adjustments. Since the intoduction of ethanol, I've never had a customer complaint with a carbureted engine about this.
As for fuel injected boats not having this problem with the ECM and sensors to compensate as you mentioned,,thats a pile of hogwash. Name one FI marine engine that has a fuel composition sensor to discern the amount of ethanol in the fuel to make the appropriate adjustments. None that I know of.

The problem with marine use and ethanol is that ethanol is a moisture magnet period. Marine fuel systems unlike cars since 1996 are vented to the atmoshere, thus giving the moisture magnet a feast. Ethanol also has much higher solvency levels. No it wont break a carburetor, but it goes to town on the gaskets and bakalite float inside it.

Ethanol in my post 96 car is fine but you'll never see that garbage going in my boat. I do treat my boat for it just in case there's screw up at the fuel shipping tower. For the record, I do hold 3 technician certificates since 1981 and own an auto repair service as well as marine repair service.

John :mrgreen:

298VISTA2000 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:01 pm

LouC wrote:

It is not mixed at the refinery and not pumped through their pipelines. Why? Too corrosive. .......And remember, it's too corrosive for the oil company's own pipelines....

LOL. Typical government mandated program that is worthless and less cost effective than what the free markets can deliver. I give ethanol three years before it is off the market. I remember when I was a kid growing up in the mid to late 70's and they were peddling some alternative fuel at the pumps back then. What was that BS because it sure didn't last long (however, my mom was given some nice Atlanta Falcons drinking glasses for pumping that crap into her station wagon)?

LouC · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:13 pm

I don't want to appear as if I am against conservation and lowered pollution. But what we have in this country, is un-educated, ignorant and clueless regulators, that can make policy. And then we must roll over and just take it, when there is plenty of evidence that it will do NONE of the things claimed and cost us money, and place people at risk (want to have an engine failure in 3 foot waves in LI Sound, mister politician).....thanks for nothing, ignorant public servants. Let's only allow ENGINEERS to make such policy. You'd have a lot less problems.

As I said before, it happened with airbags, it happened with ethanol.
And tuning a carbed engine for a leaner burning fuel is no problem, you can manually tune any carbed engine using the lean roll rich roll method as we have for years. Its as noted above, the materials can't take the level of ethanol in the gas, because they were designed for straight gas. I'm sure that's why my marine Q-Jet had to get rebuilt 2x, in 10 years, while the one in our 75 Olds, never needed to be rebuilt in 15 years of straight gas. Same carb guys.

230 Mike · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:44 pm

It's what happens when the recyclopaths finally move out of their moms' basements and begin to be given credibility by an uneducated public devoid of any common sense.

298VISTA2000 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:45 pm

LouC wrote:

(want to have an engine failure in 3 foot waves in LI Sound, mister politician.)

I thought that reasoning only applied to the politicians who owned private planes (now you know why there is no ethanol requirements for aviation)? I guess we haven't elected enough politicians who own (and actually captain) boats, or should I say yachts.

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:32 pm

We'd better be carefull guys. If our governments read all this and decide to take that Ethanol swill out of gas, they might put it in our beer :shock:

John

jpeloian · **Posted:** Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:31 am

pure-gas.org. Show stations in your area.

www.iFourWinns.com

Just say no to Ethanol!

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