www.iFourWinns.com

I have a question regarding different "V" hull designs and newer engines. As I look at newer 18-20 ft. boats ('00's) the hulls seem quite a bit shallower than my hull on my '94 H190. It makes me think the newer ones would not ride as well. Is this the case? Is one design built more for stability vs. speed? How would the ride/performance differ from my '94 to say a '04? I also notice most 'newer' 18-20 footers have the 4.3, but they are rated at more HP than my 5.0. I always hated to think of going to a 'smaller' engine as well, but with the higher HP of the newer engines, is this even a concern?

Any other good, bad, or different things if I 'upgrade' 10 years?

Thanks

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1994 FW Horizon 190
5.0 OMC Cobra

There's more to hull design then just deadrise. A LOT more. The new hull designs are very stable and ride like a Cadillac. They're actually some of the "slower" boats on the market due to trade off of comfort vs. speed. A 220hp 4.3 in an 18-20ft boat will propel it easily to 50mph and sometimes beyond. The same can not be said about a mid 90's with a 220hp v8. Fuel consumption is also much better.

Newer technology, doing more with less. Better engineering. It's like comparing a 60's muscle car with a big block v8 vs. a new Hyundai with a v6. The Hyundai has more hp, faster, and gets triple the fuel mileage.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

I don't understand how a lighter and shallower boat would ride better than mine, and like a cadillac. Faster, I understand, but I have no desire for my boat to go 50+ MPH. Fuel economy is no big deal to me either - especially the insignificant difference we're talking here. I'm not commuting with my boat.

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1994 FW Horizon 190
5.0 OMC Cobra

FWIW, our boat gets beat to hell on a busy lake. Have to slow down for EVERY wake we come across otherwise it hits so hard I think the boat is going to fall apart. One of the reasons our next boat is going to be a 22'+ boat. Would like to comfortably hold more than 4 adults as well.

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1998 Four Winns Horizon RS - 5.0GL
2002 Avalanche - Tow vehicle

Spending all day on a boat that averages 6-7gph vs 8-9 is not insignificant. The ability to go fast isn't insignificant. Comfort, speed, and efficiency is everything. That's what drives the market in cars, motorcycles, boats, airplanes, and even electronics. Like I said, just the "V" angle of a hull makes almost no difference in comfort these days. It did 20-30 years ago before we had computers and no decent ways to test things. Today boat hulls are just as refined as airplane wings.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

It is insignificant for me. We spend all day on the boat, but most of it is spent anchored in a cove swimming. I only run the boat engine a few hours per trip to the lake. On vacation, we run more, but 1-3 gph is not significant for my use.




It is insignificant for me. I have no need to run 50+. I rarely run more than cruising speed. I run <35MPH 95% of the time. If I do run fasrter, it's just for kicks, not for a significant need.



In my case, comfort is a lot higher than speed and efficiency.

IMO, cars and boats (and their respective markets) are completely different, and a terrible comparison. I'm still confused how a lighter and shallower boat has a more comfortable ride than mine. What has been refined?

I'm talking about a '94 boat, not a '60's car...

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1994 FW Horizon 190
5.0 OMC Cobra

Okay so you like your old boat, that's great. Your 1994 boat doesn't compare in any way shape or form to a 2013 boat except they boat float. That's all they have in common. There's nothing yours does better. There's no need to start a thread to try and justify to yourself why yours is just as good or better then new models. It's not. No big deal. Nobody cares. Move on.

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

I never mentioned a 2013. I don't think you even read what anyone else says, you just know you have all the answers. I'll wait for someone that actually knows something about boats to respond.

I'm looking for answers to specific questions that you obviously can't answer, so move on to the next thread and preach there. If I want vague BS and worthless analogies, I'll get back to ya...

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1994 FW Horizon 190
5.0 OMC Cobra

I've wondered the same thing. And I'm looking at the difference of an '02 compared to a new one.
They seem quite a bit shallower between those years. I have a hard time believing a new one
would ride as well as mine. You'll just have to take one for a ride.

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2002 Horizon 190 5.0gl

I know what you mean. I'm not expecting a worry-free smooth ride with a newer boat. I know a 18-20 footer will always be beaten on rough water. My main concern is getting a worse ride than what I have now by going with a similar size newer boat.

I also agree a 21-23 footer would probably be ideal, or much better, for my needs and is a consideration.

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1994 FW Horizon 190
5.0 OMC Cobra

Yeah I can't help you much there. I haven't been in a newer Four Winns this size. I never thought our boat road very well, or cut through waves very well.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do though!

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1998 Four Winns Horizon RS - 5.0GL
2002 Avalanche - Tow vehicle

ric I can't agree really....
For one, if the stats were still there on the FW site you could see...the newer boats are NOT lighter.
Point one, my '88 200 is a 20'9" boat, they said it weighed 2560
The current 200 is shorter, a 19'8" boat and it weighs about 3050. Like close to 400 lbs more.

You would think that with them using less wood and more structural foams, the boats would be lighter but that's not how it works out.

Now with today's computer assisted design, I'd expect that they could design much better hulls right off the bat, I'm not sure if it works that way or not though.

Then there's deadrise. Yes the deadrise at the transom is not the only factor, ride also depends on the angle at the bow and how the deadrise spreads out along the hull. But if you look at most all boats designed for off shore use, they have steep deadrise angles, like 20* or more at the transom. My '88 has a steeper deadrise than all the newer ones, at 21* a true deep V design and it rides like that. If you look at it from the side out of the water, you can see how deep the V is from the bow to stern, even compared to my neighbor's Key West of the same size, the V of my FW is much more pronounced. The depth of the hull from the keel to the chine is noticeably more. Deep V boats do take more power to push through the water than shallower V boats and they tend to rock more at rest. Plus, I can see how they might take more 'glass to make that shape than a flatter shape.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I think it is important to note that a 18-19' boat is only going to ride so well.

With respect to hull design, Four Winns nor any other major brand has made major strides in the last 20 years. From experience on real boats with real weather conditions, I'll say that my 1981 18' Cuddy rides considerable better than a 1991 170 Freedom (18'6" LOA) my sister had, and my 2004 Freedom rides a little worse than my cuddy but much better than the 1991.

I'd say to the OPs basic qustion, you will not see a substantial improvement in ride qualty in a 1994 vs a 2004. The 1994 may actually be a bit faster than the '04 with the same power.

When you mention the new boats being "shallower" are you refering to freeboard or deadrise. Deadrise (the angle of the "V" at the transom) is a key indicator when comparing boats on paper. The deeper/bigger the angle, typically the better the ride. Of course there are MANY variables that determine how well one boat rides vs. another, but deadrise has been a key measure for as long as "deep" V boats have been the norm.

Small boats are what they are. There is no magic formula. There are subtle improvements made by manufacturers over the years and sure a boat made today has the benefit of very sophisicated design and manufacturing equipment, but it really comes down to displacement, wetted surface and deadrise. On a small boat there is only so much that you can do to alter those.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Thanks for the educated replies. That's what I was looking for.

RotaryRacer - I was referring more to the deadrise. My boat seems deeper than many newer ones, from FW and other manufacturers.

I do really like my boat. I feel like I get good performance and ride out of it for a 'small' boat. I like the idea of upgrading, but have real concerns that I'd truely be upgrading. I'm satisfied with ride and power and would be scared to give any of that up.

Guess to be sure, I need to just get a 22'

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1994 FW Horizon 190
5.0 OMC Cobra

The 242 rides very well for a bow rider

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2011 SL242 5.7 VP GXi - 320 HP Dual Prop