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What size/type of inverter for boat?
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Author:  Family knot [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  What size/type of inverter for boat?
I am in the market for an inverter for the boat. I had a 750 or 1000W West Marine product for the old boat that struggled to run two small fans and lights. It might have been related to the battery weakening throughout the night.


I am considering a Whistler Pro-1600W 1,600 Watt Power Inverter on Amazon for around $125. I would appreciate all suggestions!
Author:  Family knot [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
I would like the option of running tv/DVD player and two small fans...I am missing things?

I've read on previous threads placing inverter close to batteries to limit the length of power connection. I've also read people running extension cords thru the boat from tv/DVD to inverter. Thoughts?

Where are 298 owners putting there inverters?
Author:  ric [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
What is your power requirements? You need to add up your watts and the runtime you want to have them on.

Some of the newer inverters are quite energy efficient, over 90%. Meaning if you require 1000 watts, the inverter is only using 100 watts to make it, for a total draw of 1100 watts off the battery bank. You're also going to want a "pure sine" wave inverter only, modified sine wave inverters like the whistler pro are worthless and highly inefficient. They can not run modern electronics.

Okay so let's say you're running two fans and 3 lights. I would wish they would be LED lights but I'm guessing they're not and they're standard incandescent. A 12in osclating fan uses around 50 watts of 120v, a 6" clip fan around 15 watts. Let's say you're using 40 watt light bulbs.

Okay so total power draw (let's mix it up)
One 12in fan
One 6in fan
Three 40w bulbs.
That's a total of a 185 watt draw at 120v or 1.5 amps.

Okay so we got our load. Let's talk about the inverter now. Let's say you went with a 1000w pure sine inverter with a 90% efficiency rating. That inverter is drawing a total of around 200 watts of power from the battery bank, but here's the kicker: It's pulling 200 watts of 12v. It's no longer 1.5 amps, but now it's pulling 17 amps from the battery(s) due to power conversion so that brings up the next topic of conversation: Battery bank and storage capacity.

Let's say you currently hooked up the inverter to a standard marine deep cycle battery. The standard lead acid deep cycle is rated for 65 amp hours of power on a 15 amp load. Most inverters have a low power shutoff at around 10 volts to avoid serious battery damage, but generally you can safely use around 50% of the capacity of a 12v lead acid battery. So you have a total availability of 33 amp hours of power storage. At a 17 amp power draw that's right around 2 hours of runtime.

If you would want to run the same setup for overnight (let's say 12 hours), you would need available 200 amp hours of storage, or counting the overhead around 400 amp hours of battery bank. Which is plenty feasible and cost effective with four 6v golf cart batteries rated at 220ah each. They weigh 60lb's each and are the size of a small car battery. Each pair of 6v batteries wired in series to create 12v 220ah, and the two pairs wired in parallel to create 12v 440ah and only 240lb. To create such a setup using 12v "deep cycle" batteries would require TWELVE batteries at 65lb each for a total weight of 780lb.

I personally run a hybrid setup. I have two 6v batteries and a 1000w pure sine inverter on my vessel. It runs my A/C for 4-8 hours depending if I want my cabin to be a meat locker or not. That's good for quick overnight to be comfortable. If I'm doing anything longer or I require more power I carry a Honda eu2000i generator that lasts 8 hours on a gallon of gas and is quieter than the AC running.
Author:  weather [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
We will be adding this (http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt-I ... B002LGEMOQ) inverter to our boat this year. Of course we'll be adding a 450 Ah bank to support it as well.
We decided on the 2000W so that we can brew coffee in the morning without turning on the generator, which would wake up the kids (=bad).
One reason inverter installations often fail is the voltage drop from the battery bank being too high. Often the wiring is undersized, which at the high current draw @12V (160A + for a 2000W inverter) the wiring needs to be significant.
Author:  ric [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
weather wrote:
We will be adding this (http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt-I ... B002LGEMOQ) inverter to our boat this year. Of course we'll be adding a 450 Ah bank to support it as well.
We decided on the 2000W so that we can brew coffee in the morning without turning on the generator, which would wake up the kids (=bad).
One reason inverter installations often fail is the voltage drop from the battery bank being too high. Often the wiring is undersized, which at the high current draw @12V (160A + for a 2000W inverter) the wiring needs to be significant.


It's better to just leave the inverter right next to the bank in the rear of the boat and use an automatic transfer switch tied into the 120v fuse panel of the vessel.
Author:  weather [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
ric wrote:
weather wrote:
We will be adding this (http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt-I ... B002LGEMOQ) inverter to our boat this year. Of course we'll be adding a 450 Ah bank to support it as well.
We decided on the 2000W so that we can brew coffee in the morning without turning on the generator, which would wake up the kids (=bad).
One reason inverter installations often fail is the voltage drop from the battery bank being too high. Often the wiring is undersized, which at the high current draw @12V (160A + for a 2000W inverter) the wiring needs to be significant.


It's better to just leave the inverter right next to the bank in the rear of the boat and use an automatic transfer switch tied into the 120v fuse panel of the vessel.


Agree that a short distance from battery to inverter is the best way to avoid voltage drop, however never place an inverter in the engine compartment as none that I've seen (even the ones made my 'marine' companies) are ignition protected.
Author:  ric [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
Inverters don't create sparks, they don't require to be "ignition protected"
Author:  Surface Interval [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
While doing research for installing my inverter, I heard of 2 occasions where individuals installed inverters in the engine compartment. However, every instruction manual I read and every recommendation I've heard specifically states NOT TO INSTALL THEIR INVERTER IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT because of the potential of adding an ignition source to a compartment that could have flammable vapors. Other electrical appliances in the engine compartment (starter, alternator, trim pumps, battery charger, etc.) are required to be ignition protected/rated. Going against manufacturer's recommendations means you are assuming a lot of risk and liability. You do not need sparks to ignite gas fumes. An overheated circuit could cause enough heat to be an ignition source.
Author:  ric [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
Ignition protection is a safety system designed for components that create sparks on a normal basis. Starters, alternators, distributors, trim pumps, etc all create sparks in their normal operation. An inverter does not create sparks, or an ignition source for fumes, in it's normal operation. You will not find a single ignition rated inverter sold on the market because there is no need to rate one. They are solid state devices. It's not illegal or against USCG rules to install one in the engine bay.
Author:  Capt. Hoss [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
ric wrote:
Ignition protection is a safety system designed for components that create sparks on a normal basis. Starters, alternators, distributors, trim pumps, etc all create sparks in their normal operation. An inverter does not create sparks, or an ignition source for fumes, in it's normal operation. You will not find a single ignition rated inverter sold on the market because there is no need to rate one. They are solid state devices. It's not illegal or against USCG rules to install one in the engine bay.

Sorry Ric but all it takes is 1 spark to send her up in flames, and to the bottom!
Author:  ric [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
Capt. Hoss wrote:
Sorry Ric but all it takes is 1 spark to send her up in flames, and to the bottom!


No it doesn't. It takes a major failure in the fuel system to leak fuel and fumes in the engine bay. It then takes a perfect air/fuel ratio in said engine bay that is possible to ignite with a spark. It then takes a faulty device not working correctly to create said spark.

Pretty much your boat has to be in derelict condition for a situation like that to happen. None of those situations happen on a daily basis of even a half assed maintained vessel. If you're running around in a 1990's boat with the original 1990's fuel lines... yeah I'd be worried. They only have a 5 year lifespan.
Author:  Bliss36 [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
Capt. Hoss wrote:
ric wrote:
Ignition protection is a safety system designed for components that create sparks on a normal basis. Starters, alternators, distributors, trim pumps, etc all create sparks in their normal operation. An inverter does not create sparks, or an ignition source for fumes, in it's normal operation. You will not find a single ignition rated inverter sold on the market because there is no need to rate one. They are solid state devices. It's not illegal or against USCG rules to install one in the engine bay.

Sorry Ric but all it takes is 1 spark to send her up in flames, and to the bottom!


Quote:

Federal Law
183.410 Ignition Protection.
(b) An electrical component is isolated from a gasoline fuel source if:
(1) A bulkhead that meets the requirements of paragraph (c) of this section is between the electrical component and the gasoline fuel source;

The regulation also provides an alternative where electrical components need not be ignition protected. If the electrical component is installed in a boat and is isolated from gasoline engines and gasoline fuel system components, except for uninterrupted runs of fuel lines, then the electrical component does not need to be ignition protected. Isolation of electrical components is discussed in 183.410 (b)(2), later in this guideline.


Quote:

To Comply With The Law
Is each electrical component either isolated by a bulkhead or ignition protected?

Federal Law
183.410 Ignition Protection.


Another Ricism..... Ric feel free to do whatever you want to your boat but please stop stating complete BS as fact so other people don't get confused. There are Federal laws involved here.
Author:  ric [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
You are taking the law out of context to make it suit your needs. Ignition protection is not a blanket coverage needed for everything electronic in the engine bay, including items that are not possible sources of ignition. Ignition protection means a spark arresting device installed on an electrical component that creates sparks. You are protecting the fuel vapors from the ignition source (hence the term "ignition protected"). You can not ignition protect something that has no source of ignition.
Author:  Capt. Hoss [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
Ric face it, putting anything in an engine compartment that "can" cause a spark is not a smart idea. If fuel lines have a 5 year life then justabout everyone who has a boat, car, lawnmower, etc older than 2009 needs to replace them. Yes I know that fuel lines do have a life span but, I also know that spark + fuel (fumes or liquid) = BAD DAY.
Author:  ric [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What size/type of inverter for boat?
So why is the battery in the engine compartment?
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