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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:12 pm 
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Seahorse

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I am sure this has been discussed before but here goes:

With spring and summer fast approaching what does everyone do regarding gas? Pay out the yazoo at the marina, or
put ethanol laced fuel into your tank?

With burning 25-40 gals a day, ethanol doesn't really stay in the tank very long.

Put in an additive that removes it?? Or suck it up and pay $5 a gallon??

Let it roll.

Jay

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:29 pm 
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Ohhh yeah, ethanol is a touchy subject. I use gas station gas (with ethanol), dump in some Sta-Bil and off I go. So far, no problems. Of course I have a carb with no painted fuel lines/pumps, so I don't have to worry about paint flaking.

As long as you use up the fuel fairly quickly, shouldn't be any worries.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Additives don't remove ethanol. For every 10 gallons of fuel there's 1 gallon of ethanol, it doesn't just go away. Additives are snake oil, unless they do specific things like make diesel not gel. Things like Seafoam are just throwing money down the drain, all modern gasolines are "detergent" blends that clean fuel systems. In fact they clean so well they eat the paint off fuel system parts in poorly designed volvo penta fuel injection that was designed before these new gasolines were sold (ethanol or not).

There's nothing wrong with running ethanol fuels if the owners manual says you can, as long as it doesn't sit for a few months to collect water vapor. If you're burning 40 gallons a day there's nothing to worry about.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Location: Lititz, PA
I usually end up putting e-10 in the tank since most stations around me only sell ethanol fuels. I do add sta-bil with each tank. At the end of the season, I pack the tank full and add a healthy dose of sta-bil again. I have had no problems. Boat runs like a champ.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:17 pm 
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ric wrote:
Additives don't remove ethanol.


Never said it did. Sta-Bil ethanol treatment simply keeps the water from separating and causing probs. If you boat in a high humidty area and use ethanol gas, it isn't a bad thing to add.

But like I said, if you burn the gas as fast as you put it in, there isn't a need for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:25 pm 
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jay,
Only issue I've had is that e-10 seems to be more prone to vapor lock when the temperature is hot out. What boat and engine are you running, carb or EFI? Lots of factors that make a difference. I haven't heard of any one whose boat was killed by ethanol, but it is something to be on top of. There are land based gas stations that sell ethanol free gas. Here is a link for a list by state.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=UT

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:15 pm 
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We're stuck with it if you get marina gas or not. There were some problems when the change over occurred because the ethanol is a strong solvent and it would clean the gunk out of old gas tanks and clog fuel filters. There were also problems with corrosion on certain carbs, esp on out boards. I have not had a lot of trouble from E10, I do dump out the water separator each year and let the gas sit to make sure I'm not getting a lot of water. So far so good.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:33 am
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pickledboater wrote:
jay,
Only issue I've had is that e-10 seems to be more prone to vapor lock when the temperature is hot out. What boat and engine are you running, carb or EFI? Lots of factors that make a difference. I haven't heard of any one whose boat was killed by ethanol, but it is something to be on top of. There are land based gas stations that sell ethanol free gas. Here is a link for a list by state.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=UT


Yea, I drive 15 miles each way to buy ethanol free gas. Starting to wonder if its worth it.

Jay

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:35 pm 
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For 20 seasons of boating in Minnesota I have not had an issue with ethanol. The boat gets used most weekends during the summer and is in storage for almost 6 months in the winter. I use Sta-bil in the fall, and just put fuel in it otherwise. I've used it in a 5.0 Ford EFI then a 5.7 GM EFI since 1995. I found that the 5.0 Ford was actually more of an issue because it required 89 octane.

Ric and others have mentioned Volvo having "paint" coming off in the fuel injection system. I've never experienced this or heard of it in boats, but I have personally experienced a similar situation on three occasions in the 99 Silverado pickup with a 5.3 that I used to have. At approximately 80,000 miles I noticed a rough idle and check engine light one morning. One cylinder was not firing well and was throwing an error code. I mentioned it at work that day and several fellow mechanics told me that it was the fuel affecting the interior of the 2 plastic fuel injection rails that deliver fuel to each injector. A tiny piece of plastic would flake off the inside surface of the rail and partially clog and affect the injector operation. Their recommendation was to buy a "more expensive" can of fuel injector cleaner, dump it in the tank, and run the engine for at least 20 minutes, then park it for the night. I experienced this three times over the course of less than a year. The next morning it ran perfectly each time. The truck ran perfectly after that for the next 90,000 miles while I owned it. According to my co-workers this was not a GM issue alone. Ford and Dodge engines were affected also.

Just to clarify, I'm not one to add much of any thing to fuel through the year, but if a $5 to $12 can of "snake oil" does any one any good by avoiding a repair bill, maybe they can use that money for more boat gas. :D Hope this helps someone.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:44 am 
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What have you been running in it? If real gas, then you will need to stay with real gas or you will have major issues from the devarnishing caused by E-10.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
This is going to be one of those things that will be debated for ever. My take on it is this: if the amount was very carefully limited to just 10% then you probably would not have problems, but local testing showed that some samples were as high as 20% and every engine manufacturer will tell you that will cause problems. Since the mix is blended in the tanker truck if the driver does not know exactly how much gas he has, there can be mistakes. The only other option I see that the marine and recreational/yard equipment engine makers have is to keep pressure on the EPA and farm lobby. These are the two groups responsible for the ethanol mess. As long as the refineries do not mix it before it gets distributed, there is a chance of problems. They do sell test kits so you can measure what you're getting.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:10 pm 
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Seahorse

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298VISTA2000 wrote:
What have you been running in it? If real gas, then you will need to stay with real gas or you will have major issues from the devarnishing caused by E-10.


I have been running 90 octane NON ethanol. I think I might start saving a buck a gallon and mix/dilute the pure gas with the E10
every now and then. I would be like an E2.5 or so :roll: don't think it will cause any issues.

If anyone else out there does, TELL ME before I jump off this bridge!

But after much discussion, and reading the manual, I think I will be in the clear.

Jay

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
How old is this boat?
We have no choice, the EPA (gov't for gov't not for people), forced this on us, because of our air quality, political hacks who no one elected.
If I had a choice NO WAY would I put ANY ethanol in ANY engine of mine.
If the boat is older, well to quote Clint Eastwood, do you feel lucky? It will clean out the old tank and clog your filters and leave you stuck somewhere. I changed filters a few times that year, lucky the tank was pretty clean to start with.

BTW, my 07 Grand 5.7 Hemi gets about 17 on E10 and 19.9 on straight gas at highway driving. I found this out on a road trip from Long Island NY to Watkins Glen NY for a NASCAR race. Up in farm country you can get straight gas, how ironic.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:59 pm 
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Location: Lititz, PA
LouC wrote:
How old is this boat?
BTW, my 07 Grand 5.7 Hemi gets about 17 on E10 and 19.9 on straight gas at highway driving. I found this out on a road trip from Long Island NY to Watkins Glen NY for a NASCAR race. Up in farm country you can get straight gas, how ironic.


Should get a boost in HP with e-10 right? I guess that is the trade-off for the lower fuel economy? Or is that boost in power only noticeable if running e-85?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:26 pm 
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Most people that have run comparisons will tell you that E10 will be pretty close to straight petroleum-based fuel as far as power and fuel economy. E85 will generally produce less power and fuel economy, or the same power while burning more fuel. In most cases it may be anywhere from pretty close to as much as 25-30% less power or fuel economy with E85. Ethanol produces fewer BTUs per gallon than petroleum fuel of the same octane rating. That is part of the reason E85 is priced less. You might think of it as buying fuel by the BTU rather than the gallon. Ethanol fuels tend to cause the engine to run a bit leaner because the ethanol fuel has more oxygen molecules than regular petroleum fuel. Ethanol fuels have been shown in tests to reduce certain types of pollution due to this increased oxygen content and chemistry. But in the end, leave the E85 ethanol for the cars approved to use it and the operators that choose it. Personally, I have used a lot of E10, and have not had any issues with it. Ethanol is an alcohol based fuel and will also absorb a certain amount of water, much like adding a can of Heet isopropyl alcohol for gas line freeze in cold climates.

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