www.iFourWinns.com :: View topic - Response from the factory about rust issue

I have been thinking about how I would react if I were in your shoes.

In recent years I had a significant warranty claim with a new snowmobile where the motor blew up. My dealer's first and very quick response to me was that he would do what ever he could to make things right. Shortly after getting his hands on my machine he had the manufacturer commit to a new motor, no questions asked. The bad news he did have for me was that the motors were on back order and I would be down for 3 weeks. Knowing this was unacceptable, as our season is short, he assured me he would do what he could to keep me on the snow. For the next 3 weekends that I was without my sled he lent me a machine that he had in his inventory. Keeping in mind that my machine was only $14k, I have to say my dealer went above and beyond to stand behind the product he sold me.

In contrast it does not seem, based on the information we have, that your dealer is standing behind the product he sold you.

At a minimum I think I would expect my dealer to scratch his head and work with me to figure out what caused the rust. Was it poor maintenance, the environment in which it was stored, has he seen related cases, did he have to clean rust from the boat when he did the PDI, could there be an issue with the boat. Further, I would expect that an unsatisfactory response from the factory would be accompanied by a "don't worry we will figure this shit out".

Something to keep in mind regarding the factory response is the fact that this response likely came a from a regional factory rep. One who could have been having a bad day, or simply not too swift. My point is that this response might not necessarily be in line with the Four Winns Mission Statement.

If you have not had any further success at this point in time I would certainly put more pressure on the dealer to help you come to a solution for this issue. If you are unsuccessful with your dealer I would work my way up the food chain at Four Winns.

At the end of the day there is an issue. It is my strong opinion that a quality dealer would feel compelled to help you identify and solve the matter, regardless of what it was.

I really hope this story has a happy ending for you.

Author:	byron [ Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
I posted twice in this forum in reguards to the rust issue. I have a 2015 275V and after the first season only had rust on the U-bolts on the stearn and the swim platform bolts. I have had this exact same problem on my last two previous boats which I never see until the fall haul out. As far as quality of the FW, it has been the best of the last three new boats that I had before it. I do agree with Tarzan as far as the website goes. Other than going through the dealer, I have yet to find a way to get in touch with anyone from FW. Unfortunately my dealer isn't the best to get in touch with either. If it was'nt for my decades of boating experience, as well as very few problems with my FW, I would be in trouble. Once again, after owing various boats, FW comes out on top.

Author:	riverratt [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
That rust should not occur and the response from the factory is pure BS. My guess would be an out of spec passivation process. Regardless of the cause, Four Winns needs to step up and correct the problem instead of denying the problem and shifting the blame to you. Best of luck.

Author:	alex8q4 [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
I have been thinking about how I would react if I were in your shoes. In recent years I had a significant warranty claim with a new snowmobile where the motor blew up. My dealer's first and very quick response to me was that he would do what ever he could to make things right. Shortly after getting his hands on my machine he had the manufacturer commit to a new motor, no questions asked. The bad news he did have for me was that the motors were on back order and I would be down for 3 weeks. Knowing this was unacceptable, as our season is short, he assured me he would do what he could to keep me on the snow. For the next 3 weekends that I was without my sled he lent me a machine that he had in his inventory. Keeping in mind that my machine was only $14k, I have to say my dealer went above and beyond to stand behind the product he sold me. In contrast it does not seem, based on the information we have, that your dealer is standing behind the product he sold you. At a minimum I think I would expect my dealer to scratch his head and work with me to figure out what caused the rust. Was it poor maintenance, the environment in which it was stored, related cases he has seen, did he have to clean rust when he did the PDI, could there be an issue with the boat. Further, I would expect that a unsatisfactory response from the factory would be accompanied by a "don't worry we will figure this shit out". Something to keep in mind regarding the factory response is the fact that this response likely came a from a regional factory rep. One who could have been having a bad day, or simply not too swift. My point is that this response might not necessarily be in line with the Four Winns Mission Statement. If you have not had any further success at this point in time I would certainly put more pressure on the dealer to help you come to a solution for this issue. If you are unsuccessful with your dealer I would work my way up the food chain at Four Winns. At the end of the day there is an issue. It is my strong opinion that a quality dealer would feel compelled to help you identify and solve the matter, regardless of what it was. I really hope this story has a happy ending for you.

Author:	alex8q4 [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
alex8q4 wrote: I have been thinking about how I would react if I were in your shoes. In recent years I had a significant warranty claim with a new snowmobile where the motor blew up. My dealer's first and very quick response to me was that he would do what ever he could to make things right. Shortly after getting his hands on my machine he had the manufacturer commit to a new motor, no questions asked. The bad news he did have for me was that the motors were on back order and I would be down for 3 weeks. Knowing this was unacceptable, as our season is short, he assured me he would do what he could to keep me on the snow. For the next 3 weekends that I was without my sled he lent me a machine that he had in his inventory. Keeping in mind that my machine was only $14k, I have to say my dealer went above and beyond to stand behind the product he sold me. In contrast it does not seem, based on the information we have, that your dealer is standing behind the product he sold you. At a minimum I think I would expect my dealer to scratch his head and work with me to figure out what caused the rust. Was it poor maintenance, the environment in which it was stored, has he seen related cases, did he have to clean rust from the boat when he did the PDI, could there be an issue with the boat. Further, I would expect that an unsatisfactory response from the factory would be accompanied by a "don't worry we will figure this shit out". Something to keep in mind regarding the factory response is the fact that this response likely came a from a regional factory rep. One who could have been having a bad day, or simply not too swift. My point is that this response might not necessarily be in line with the Four Winns Mission Statement. If you have not had any further success at this point in time I would certainly put more pressure on the dealer to help you come to a solution for this issue. If you are unsuccessful with your dealer I would work my way up the food chain at Four Winns. At the end of the day there is an issue. It is my strong opinion that a quality dealer would feel compelled to help you identify and solve the matter, regardless of what it was. I really hope this story has a happy ending for you.

Author:	TX H210SS [ Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
Very well said and agreed....whatever the issue is it would be nice to have someone in the business help ID that issue.

www.iFourWinns.com https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/

Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V275 https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14634	Page 2 of 2

Author:	230 Mike [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
This is not the result of inadequate cleaning. The rust is emerging from areas which aren't even accessible for cleaning. Given that the hardware wouldn't have all come from one defective batch I wonder about an electrical problem, either on the boat itself, or in your dock environment.

Author:	RotaryRacer [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
I have two theories about what is causing this rust: - Theory 1: The parts/areas in question are staying wet for a long period of time and robbing the inside surfaces against the hull of oxygen and therefore preventing the passivization/oxide layer from forming and reforming and therefore allowing things to rust. - Theory 2: An environmental issue that is persistent and prevalent where the boat is stored. Maybe it is simply rust/residue from the surrounding structure that is accumulating in areas when it is wet. Maybe there has been acidic rain that has sat on the surfaces and disturbed the oxide layer on the SS. Maybe it is a combination of many factors and it truly isn't a defect? For all the different stainless parts to rust on your boat due to a defective steel is not plausible. I'm sure that many of the products are made by suppliers and vendors do not share the same raw material source. ie: A bolt/screw supplier would not be using the same batch of steel as a grabrail supplier. I'm almost certain that the root cause is some factor out of the manufacturers control. Maybe it is out of your control also.

Author:	GottWhat [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
OP - do any boats in your marina exhibit similar rusting issues?

Author:	Graham R [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
[quote="RotaryRacer"]- Theory 1: The parts/areas in question are staying wet for a long period of time and robbing the inside surfaces against the hull of oxygen and therefore preventing the passivization/oxide layer from forming and reforming and therefore allowing things to rust. I agree; classic crevice corrosion of stainless steel. Small gaps like in threaded areas, static as far as water movement goes and the oxygen dissolved in the water is used up. There are some lubricants, for want of a better word, that can be applied in the assembly process to prevent this but they are expensive I acquired a tube of "Pure Goop" ( what a name !) from a decommissioned factory, works very well.

Author:	mkivbren [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
http://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-for ... sting.html

Author:	RD-Panama [ Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
It is now mid April and the dealer has still not shown up to "clean the boat," although he has promised to arrive next week. We will see.

Author:	byron [ Sun May 01, 2016 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
This week I uncovered my 275-v (2015). The only rust it had on anything was a very small amount around the swim platform bolts. This was the first lay up season for the boat. Just wanted RD-Panama know that he is probably dealing with an unusual situation. Did the dealer ever come to clean up the boat. If so did he have any ideas.

Author:	RD-Panama [ Sun May 01, 2016 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Response from the factory about rust issue - brand new V
Thanks byron for staying on top of this. The dealer has now made five promises to come and has failed to show up even once. It is now kind of a joke to see what his next excuse will be. So, given that the dealer is playing games I sent notice to the factory last Thursday using every email address at Beneteau and at recboatholdings I could find. No response yet. I hired a marine surveyor with specialization in rust issues to do an assessment of my boat. He determined that the rust is resulting from crevice corrosion due to improper installation of the stainless. None of the affected fittings have any bedding of any sort; they are just screwed to the fiberglass. No 3M 5200 or butyl tape or anything. Now today I discovered that my ac raw water pump was improperly installed 12 inches above the raw water strainer. The inlet on the pump must be flooded according to the pump manufacturer. I am beginning to wonder if my boat was even assembled at the factory or in some chop shop somewhere. No response from the factory yet but it has only been a couple days.

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