www.iFourWinns.com

Dedicated to Current and Future Owners
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:52 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:43 am 
Hello, I'm new to this forum and have looked around to try and find a fix to my problem of leaking Transom. I've seen many old threads but could not find any results. So, I'd like to start a new thread to see if I can get any help. I will try to keep it short.

I was given a 1987 215 Sundowner I/O in 2015 by my father in law who was original owner and used it rarely since his purchase in 87. Boat runs amazingly, and is in excellent condition overall. Unfortunately I had to have a gimble bearing, bellows, etc replacement in 2016. I do not recall any water in the bilge after this repair.

Now, 2018 I have a constant leak in the bilge, it will kick on about every 10 min, I've tried to trouble shoot all possibilities, replaced the drain plug, and plug housing and resealed, no leaks in the new bellows, no hose leaks. Took it back to the mechanic that did the gimble/bellow repair and even he was dumbfounded. He then filled the bilge up with water to just below the starter and we tilted the boat bow up on the loader. NO LEAKS coming out. UNTIL, he lifted up on the lower unit which then caused the transom plate at the bottom to leak.

He then proceeded to tell me I have a bad transom and it will be close to 4K to replace and rebuild.

My questions Are?

1. Could this be just a result of loose Transom Mount bolts and if so How can I tighten them with out taking the motor out?

2. How do I determine if the transom in fact soft - I'm thinking about drilling for some core samples and then filling holes with 3M 5200 sealant ??

3. The boat leaks when just sitting in water, boat does not have to be running. Could there be anything else. Is it possible I've just lost the transom plate seal somehow and Can it be taken off and resealed without removing the inboard moter?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:33 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:49 pm
Posts: 324
Location: NY
Boat is likely rotted to all hell.

You can take a ball peen hammer to the transom and listen to the way it sounds. You want a RAP RAP RAP sound, not a THUD THUD THUD.

Try to tighten the motor mount bolts and see how much grip they have.

How was the boat stored when not in use?

_________________
2006 Four Winns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi/SX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:53 pm 
Offline
Clownfish
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:51 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Thumb of Michigan
You say the boat had little use so Misterfu02's question about how it was stored is important. Was it covered or was rain allowed to enter the boat and drain out the bilge?

Usually transom rot is the result of a long term slow leak around the bolts or fittings that does a number on the marine plywood in that area. Unless the transom plate was removed and replaced sometime in the past the factory seal is usually pretty good. I'd try to track down someone who has more experience in identifying and repairing such issues and get their opinion.

_________________
1987 Sundowner 215
Mercruiser 230/V8 - Alpha One Gen 1
Previous Boat
1973 Starcraft 21' Chieftain 120 HP Mercruiser I/O
PADI Master Diver
IANTD Technical EANx Diver
Commercial Pilot
Flight Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:22 pm 
Thanks for the reply guys. Boat was always stored indoors. Father in law was a matuculus owner and kept very good care of it. I was given the boat in 2015 and probably have used it more in 3 years than he did on 30. I dry stack it, winterize it and it is always kept in heated storage over the winter.

Here is what I did today -

1. Ran the motor with the muffs and checked for the leak...looked for 5-10 min. Thought maybe it could be leaking from an internal hose exhaust or something No leaks.

2. Then located and tightened the transom assembly bolts. This was a bitch to do ! Top ones were easy bottom ones almost broke my arm doing it. But they we all LOOSE. I was able to tighten them all after several curse words and couple bloody knuckles.

Put her in the water and NO LEAKS ! I let her sit for 15 min no leaks. Thought I had her fixed ! Driver to the slip to put her up for the night and by the time I put the dock lines on. She was leaking just like before. No noticeable change ! Arg

3. Put her back on the work rack, where I then did some probing. From the inside I used a saw and cut through the fiberglass as close the the motor mount as I could get. To see the wood behind, wood is dry, and looks like new

4. Not sure if I should have done this but. I did the hammock tap test. I did notice some difference in sound. Where I thought there was a “thug” I drilled a 1/4 in hole. I drilled slowly through th fiberglass, then when expecting to hit wood I hit nothing, bit literally went right through to the inside fiberglass ... this is telling me it’s rotted to hell and back

5. At his point as frustrated as hell and having some 3m 5200 sealant I filled the holes and put a heavy need around the entire transom housing... hoping for a temporary fix to get me through the season til winter where I can pull the motor and fix her right


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:27 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:49 pm
Posts: 324
Location: NY
I'd still check those motor mounts and make sure the stringers aren't shot. A boat from the mid-80's I almost bought before my H200 was stored indoors, high and dry, and still ended up having significant rot. It was also an original owner boat, meticulously cared for. In fact the owner didn't even know the rot issues existed until I brought it up. The guy also did the bellows and all of the rear end maintenance probably because it was taking on water due to the rotted transom.

Also, once water breaches that transom seal, your transom wood gets soaked with water with no way to dry out.

If it does have a rotted transom (and sounds like it does), the boat could sink. Either fix it or send the boat to the scrapyard. Out on the open water is no place to be testing shadetree boat repairs, trust me.

_________________
2006 Four Winns Horizon 200
Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi/SX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:35 pm 
I appreciate the advice thank you


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:20 am 
Offline
Clownfish
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:51 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Thumb of Michigan
Whiskey Jim, I really feel for you..... if you check my signature you'll see I have the same boat, purchased last fall. Mine has always been in fresh water, stored inside when not in use. One difference is it got a lot of summertime use by the previous owner. I only took it out a half-dozen times before turning it over to a marine mechanic who pulled the drive, inspected it and winterized it for me. One thing that impressed me was I've never had any water in the bilge and nothing came out when I pulled the plug after taking it out.

Nonetheless, all this discussion of rotted transoms has made me nervous about mine and I will be very watchful. I live in Michigan and there are a bunch of good shops that specialize in fiberglass repair if I ever face that problem.... I guess it comes down to whether the boat represents a value to you that is worth the cost of repair. I would think if you got yoursfor free then $4000 would get you a pretty good boat, especially when you look at current prices.

By the way, what state do you live in?

_________________
1987 Sundowner 215
Mercruiser 230/V8 - Alpha One Gen 1
Previous Boat
1973 Starcraft 21' Chieftain 120 HP Mercruiser I/O
PADI Master Diver
IANTD Technical EANx Diver
Commercial Pilot
Flight Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:50 am 
Offline
Clownfish
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:51 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Thumb of Michigan
I found this video which might help concerned boat owners assess the health of their transoms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9t2UTYKBI

One is always learning when it comes to maintaining older boats :-)

Tim

_________________
1987 Sundowner 215
Mercruiser 230/V8 - Alpha One Gen 1
Previous Boat
1973 Starcraft 21' Chieftain 120 HP Mercruiser I/O
PADI Master Diver
IANTD Technical EANx Diver
Commercial Pilot
Flight Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:16 pm 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 4:31 pm
Posts: 873
Location: Minneapolis, MN
This is not meant to be a permanent fix by itself, but running a bead of 5200 or some other sealant around the transom shield where it meets the transom may be a band-aid to get by for a while. Make sure the transom shield bolts are tight. This might also be done on other boats that have not leaked yet, just as an extra measure to prevent leakage. This leak is not unheard of on Volvos that have several years on them. There may be wood rot in the transom on those that have leaked.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:57 pm 
So I did run some 5200 around the transom housing. Now that I’m set on doing the transom repair my self and father in law. I’m wondering how hard the stuff is gonna be to get off. I’ll be into it Monday I’ll keep you posted on my progress


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:26 pm 
Offline
Clownfish
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:51 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Thumb of Michigan
My understanding is you never use 5200 if you ever expect to take something apart again. In your case, the resulting destruction to the transom that may result probably makes it a non-issue since you're replacing the transom anyway.

Your case still doesn't make a lot of sense.... if it was stored as you described where'd the water come from?

_________________
1987 Sundowner 215
Mercruiser 230/V8 - Alpha One Gen 1
Previous Boat
1973 Starcraft 21' Chieftain 120 HP Mercruiser I/O
PADI Master Diver
IANTD Technical EANx Diver
Commercial Pilot
Flight Instructor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:29 am 
Offline
email admin your custom rank

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5661
Location: Long Island NY
Head on over to the boat restoration forum on Iboats; those guys know it all.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:40 pm 
Operation Transom repair is underway. Phase 1 is complete which was trailering the boat from Cleveland Ohio to Xenia Ohio to father in laws shop which is about 3 hour drive. We did that today with no issues and were also able to remove the swim platform, lower unit, and the camper top storage bin with no issues. Tomorrow we hop to pull the motor and remove the gimble/transom plate and assess the damage. Keep you posted thanks for all the advice


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:28 am 
Well, It has been a fun 4 days! We successfully pulled the outdrive, gimble housing/transom plate, and motor with no problems. We determined that we had a leak in the starboard side trim tab cylinder , and it may have been slowly leaking for many years un noticed. The entire starboard side all the way to the lower port side of transom was completely rotted with oil like texture, not just water. Anyway, with a full day of tearing out and grinding i've gotten all the rotted wood completely out and new wood cut and dry fit into place. It has gone surprisingly well without any complications which is highly unusual. LOL Tomorrow I'll begin prepping the transom with fiberglass and gluing her in with epoxy resin. I think she is going to be stronger than the day she left the factory. Great this with this boat is the entire core of the boat around the stringers etc is filled with foam, so none of the rot got into the stringers was was good to see. We even drilled some core sample hole to check and they were dry as a bone. Will fill them with epoxy. I'll post a complete video when done. Thanks for all your help and replies.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:07 pm 
I'm call it a huge success!! BUT! just got her back in the water with a new transom, and everything put back in. She sat in the lake for 3 hours, no leaks, took her out for a gentle test drive, and I got a little bit of water in the bilge area, not enough to kick the bilge on. Then took her back out for a longer run about an hour total. No additional water, and the bilge never kicked on. Where could this little bit of water be coming from?? I then docked it sucked out all the water with a shop vac. She sat over night in the water, NO WATER in bilge the next day. I started the motor and let it run for 15-20 min. NO WATER in the bilge. Took her out twice again to day for about 2 hours each time. Checked the bilge area when I docked tonight. The same amount of water, is in the bilge. Not enough to kick the pump on but enough to drive me crazy.

It seems like it only happens when the boat is moving, not from an leaking water hose etc???

So far it has filled up the same amount, less than a gallon. Is it normal to have some water in the bilge area ?? I always thought no.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group