www.iFourWinns.com

Inspired by 230Mike's questions about his policy, I took a good close look at my policy recently to make sure it was what I wanted/needed for my boat. To my disgust and surprise, I found that my insurer had sold me an Actual Cash Value policy after telling me that it was an agreed value/replacement cost policy for both the hull and motor.

If you don't already know, an Actual Cash Value policy is one that pays you what your boat is worth on the date of the accident after depreciation. This type of coverage is generally cheaper to buy. I'm sure you can see the problem someone like myself (whose boat is less than a year old) would have if my boat were totalled given the large depreciation hit that you take on a brand new boat when you take delivery.

Not sure how this happened, but I AM sure that it is my fault for not catching this upon renewal in January 2008. Luckily, nothing has happened to where I've had a loss and am in a bad spot. So, I'm now shopping for a boat policy and an umbrella policy.

Anyone care to share what type of agreed value/replacement cost coverage they have on their vessels?
1. Name of insurer?
2. Policy limits for
a. liability?
b. uninsured/underinsured boater?
c. property damage?
d. medical?
e. hazardous material/fuel spill?
f. contents?
g. who determines the "agreed value"? are you allowed to just provide the amount you paid for the boat?
h. deductible?
3. Umbrella policy limits (if you have one)?
4. Yearly premium
a. for boat policy?
b. for umbrella policy?

I've been involved in a few insurance threads over on TB.com and I feel like I'm walking on eggshells over there just to ask a question without getting flamed. I trust you guys a lot more to give me your opinions and not think I have improper motives in asking. Plus, many of you are insuring very similar vessels.

Hopefully my predicament will lead others to review their policies and make sure they got the kind of coverage they thought they purchased. Insurance is not the simplest thing in the world to understand, so maybe this thread would also serve those who have questions that they are afraid to ask their agent, trust their agent to just take care of them so they don't have to ask/worry, or have gotten answers they don't understand. I used to practice law in the insurance field, so I understand it pretty well if anyone has questions or wants something explained in more detail.

Thanks in advance for the info.

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

im checking mine now

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2007 Four Winns 220SS (Sold!!)
2006 Toyota Tacoma

Gee, I can't understand why

Paul, I gave you many of the details on my current policy; I'd be happy to share any details. What I just found out a few days ago was that CNA (BoatUS) increased the no-loss discount on my policy from 10% to 20%. This brings my net premium much more in line with many policies with lesser coverage and/or claims service reputations. I now have an agreed value yacht policy with no depreciation, unlimited on- and off-water towing, higher limits on some things than most carriers will provide (i.e., fuel spill=$800K), and high confidence if I ever do have a claim.

My umbrella policy is with my homeowner's/auto carrier. They just wanted a copy of my CNA boat policy to verify minimum liability limits in order to have the umbrella cover the boat also.

The only catch is, if I ever do have a claim, the following year's premium will be nearly $200 higher without the no-loss credit.

On agreed value, you do just tell them how much you want it covered for. I'm sure they have limits based on the year, make, and other details of the boat, but as long as it's reasonable you should be OK. The only issue with it is that (at least on mine) I don't think there's any consideration for inflation. In other words, when I took out the policy I could have replaced my boat with another new one in the case of a total loss. But due to FW price increases in the 3 years since, I could no longer do that. But I'd still be WAY better off than if I had an ACV policy!

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Im with progressive and have an agreed upon 40k value for comprehensive and collision but I did just notice my deductible is set at $1875...I'll be putting in a call to get that down to $500 today

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2007 Four Winns 220SS (Sold!!)
2006 Toyota Tacoma

I too have progressive with a full replacement value. Problem I have is the 5k personal effects. I have 5k in lights and stereo alone. I had them write me a supplement policy for an added 10k to cover the swimplatform, jackets, water toys and anything else I can find a receipt on when and if my boat gets stolen or sinks.

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I was wondering about the inflation and increase in prices. Was wondering if maybe I shouldn't bump up my declared/agreed value for what was paid by about 5% to compensate for that. So, the insurer doesn't ask for a bill of sale or copy of registration to confirm the value? I would expect them to have some sort of "book" with those values, but also expected them to ask. I guess that is the suspicious part of me, knowing what I know from working for the insurance companies. I've seen insurance companies deny coverage based on the fact that a policyholder stated a value that was higher than their "book value" on an asset when the agreed value was reached well before a loss ever took place. Some companies would call it a "material misrepresentation" and deny coverage every single time. I will not name names, that is not the point of this thread. The tangent I've traveled off on is also not the point, so enough of that.

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

Paradise, any idea whether that Progressive policy is a true replacement cost policy or if it is a "hybrid policy"? For those who don't know the difference, a "hybrid policy" provides for agreed value/replacement cost if there is a total loss to the hull but then provides Actual Cash Value for the motor/outdrive. So, they basically pay replacement on the hull and depreciate the motor/outdrive if you have a total loss.

It seems that in shopping around, this is my biggest question. The policy language dictates the answer to this question, but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule that anyone can answer this question. Some responses are along the lines of, "I'm not sure but you can review the policy after you buy it to get that answer." HUH?!

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

Careful Paul, Tilliam's ears are burning .

I don't remember having to provide any documentation on the purchase price when I took out the CNA policy. It was all done by BoatUS and there were very few questions, as I recall.

When I got a quote from Progressive recently, the gal had to keep putting me on hold to "talk to someone" to get answers to my questions, and then when she did answer them she didn't sound sure of the answers. And I didn't like her answers to questions like, "what if I want to teach my 15 year old how to drive the boat, and I sit right next to them at all times?" Her answer: "you will have to add them to your policy beforehand, or else you will not be covered." I just got the impression that a claim could be accompanied by a dose of game playing, which I'm not interested in.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

My dec page simply states "agreed value $40,000". I have no clue if this is a hybrid but from what my dec page says, it better not be.

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2007 Four Winns 220SS (Sold!!)
2006 Toyota Tacoma

It's always good for everyone to check... I think mine is pretty squared away:

1. Name of insurer? Safeco
2. Policy limits for
a. liability? 300,000
b. uninsured/underinsured boater? 300,000
c. property damage? 300,000
d. medical? 2000
e. hazardous material/fuel spill? seriously? ha ha, mine is 0
f. contents? 250 (don't keep anything valuable)
g. who determines the "agreed value"? are you allowed to just provide the amount you paid for the boat? 67,500 boat 2500 trailer
h. deductible? 250.00
3. Umbrella policy limits (if you have one)? 1 million (not part of this policy though)
4. Yearly premium
a. for boat policy? 626.00
b. for umbrella policy? not sure on that one. policy docs at home

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Here ya go:

Progressive
Coverage & Premium Information

2004 Four Winns 288 Vista

BODILY INJURY & PROPERTY DAMAGE LIABILITY $105.00
$300,000 COMBINED SINGLE LIMIT
UNINSURED BOATERS $76.00
$300,000 COMBINED SINGLE LIMIT
MED PAY/WATERSKIER'S MED PAY $1,000 EACH PERSON $6.00
COMPREHENSIVE $500 DED AGREED VALUE $673.00
AGREED VALUE $100,000
COLLISION $500 DED AGREED VALUE $183.00
AGREED VALUE $100,000
DISAPPEARING DEDUCTIBLE INCL
WRECKAGE REMOVAL INCL
MARINE ELECTRONICS DED $500 INCL
TRAILER DED $250
FUEL SPILL LIABILITY INCL
$1,000 REPLACEMENT COST PE $250 DED $14.00
COASTAL NAVIGATION 75 NAUTICAL MILES INCL
Premium by Watercraft $1,057.00
2006 Figa Recoupment $13.74
2007 Figa Recoupment $13.74
Florida Hurricane Catastrophe Fund Assessment $10.57
Total Policy Premium $1,095.05

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Here's my coverage through progressive...
I got what they call, "Total Loss Replacement" coverage. Per my declarations page and my insurance agent, it reads...
Represents the total purchace price of the boat including tax and title fees paid at the time of purchase, including any boating equipment, attached or otherwise and trailer. The purchase price must be supported by a sales receipt. If boat is totalled, boat will be replaced with brand new boat equal to original purchase price or new available/comparable boat if current make and model not available.

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2006, 220 Horizon
Kent, WA.
"Semper Fidelis"

It just so happens I renewed my policy today. I looked around and recieved 3 other quotes before deciding to stay where I was. Although it was not the least expensive policy I feel comfortable with the value of the coverage. My policy is a "total replacment" policy. If the boat is deemed a total loss in the first 5 years of ownership my insurance company will replace it with a NEW Four Winns same model, similarly equipt boat, of the current production year. Meaning, if I had a total loss next year I would recieve a 2009 model, even if the cost is greater than the insurance coverage amount. In the event you decided you no longer wanted (or phyically could not) own a boat, you would be entitled to the amount of vehicle coverage set forth in your policy. (Mine is 54,200 boat $4800 trailer) Its called AQUAPAC MILLENNIUM 2 and it also has a disappearing deductible. You recieve a 25% deductible discount every year you are claim free. After four years you have $0.00 deductible.

1. Name of insurer? (Broker:Western Marine Insurance)-Vantage Casualty Insurance Co.
2. Policy limits for
a. liability? $300,000
b. uninsured/underinsured boater? $300,000
c. property damage? Part of Liability amount $300,000
d. medical? $5,000
e. hazardous material/fuel spill? $500,000
f. contents? $2,500
g. Values- (I chose the coverage amount $54,200 boat, $4,800 trailer)
h. deductible? $375.00 (Disappearing deductible-Last year was $500.00, next year $250.00)
i. emergency towing? $500.00
3. Yearly premium for boat policy? $596.00 (I have GPS and Safety Certification discounts)

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Jeff
2006 H240 6.2 MX 320HP B3
La Habra, California

Good deal Jeff, the most important part is that you feel comfortable with the policy and carrier.

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Good thing I finally decided to read this thread. Its time to change mine from Progressive. I have an ACV policy which won't get me near the boat I have for replacement in my opinion. Plus I only have $1,000 in personal effects replacement. If you've seen my other thread you know that won't cut it!

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Former owner of:
1996 Four Winns Horizon 200 5.8L VP
2006 Four Winns Horizon 260 8.1L VP
2007 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer

Current boat
2004 Sea Ray 290 Sun Sport Twin 350 Mags