www.iFourWinns.com

This boat sunk in it's slip at our marina yesterday morning. Apparantly there are 3 plugs in this Cat. 2 are put in from the outside, and 1 from the inside. They forgot about the 3rd plug!

_________________
'04 FW 268Vista "Andiamo"

My policy was terminated after my payout for the total loss of our boat in early May. The storm was alot worse than they predicted. We were not aboard during the storm. I would highly recommend Travelers to anyone shopping their insurance. The handling of our claim was extroadinary.

_________________
Doug M
South Jersey
'07 Four Winns 318

Dang Doug! What type of boat was it that was totaled out? Any info you'd care to share?

I had Travelers for my homeowners on my old home, until I was burglarized. They handled the claim great, but doubled my rate upon renewal. I'm no longer with them. Who are you insured with now?

_________________
2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

The destroyed boat is our 2007 FW318 (shown in my signature photo the day we bought her). We are currently boatless and do not have or require boat insurance right now. I have been told to expect an increase in insurance costs due to the loss if and when we purchase another boat.

We were slipped when a nor'easter hit our marina area. The wind speeds were predicted to hit 30MPH which would have been nasty but tolerable at our slip. Wind gust speeds were clocked at 78MPH. A boat across the fairway from us broke free, actually pulled the piles from the waves pushed up from the winds. It crossed the fairway and hit us on the nose. Eventually our lines broke and the other boat and wind pushed us parallel against the dock. The boat that broke loose got caught between our piles with the wind to its stern and spent the night thrashing against our port side. Our boat was pinned between the dock and the other boat. Three or four boats at the marina went under from the storm.

_________________
Doug M
South Jersey
'07 Four Winns 318

I would be interested to know what Travelers does with a new boat policy. For those of you who have read my posts I'm an insurance agent and one of my companies is Travelers. By the standard reading of insurance fillings in my state a loss w/ no intent or negligence should cost you the claims free discount which is usually in the neighborhood of 10%. Other than that I would not expect major changes in premiums. The fact is was a major claim shouldn't really come into play.

I'm about to find out myself. My new 224 suffered damage a couple weeks ago and my claim was just settled for $2,700 and I'm with Travelers. I'm quite impressed, we filed the claim 10 days ago and the check should be here tommorrow and boat fixed by Wednesday of next week.

Home and Auto policies become even more complicated. The claims free discount can be even larger then you combine that with huge fluctuations in year to year pricing. While a typical $1,000 home owners premium with a claim could raise to $1,100 if the company took a 7% increase in rates that becomes almost $200 in additional premium which looks like the claim cost you more.

With that said I've been pretty firm on my opinion that personal insurance is now traded like commodities. The great majority of standard companies all of great claims service and take the best price when you can get it, they sure are not going to do you favors for sticking around. Note: Read you policy carefully.....huge differences in coverages on boats and as I've said.......if you see the words "actual cash value" on a policy just kick yourself in the nuts now.

_________________
2008 Four Winns 224 Funship 5.0 GXI/DP Black w/ Tower
2007 GMC Crew Cab Short Bed / Bose Ed.
2007 Fourwinns H180 (SOLD)

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people"

Then wouldn't this be a claim against THEIR insurance policy for failing to secure their vessel?

_________________
-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Bill it's very easy to think that would be the case. Your dealing with two issues here, one being caselaw and the other being an insurance contract.

Much like we deal with here in the midwest. If wind and lightning strike your neighbor's tree and his tree falls on your house. Who's insurance pays?? The answer is easy.....You DO!

For your insurance policy to pay for bodily injury or property damage to somebody else or their property, you have to be (key word) negligent in your actions or care of property. Let me give you a few examples.

Back to the tree. If the city had warned your neighbor it was rotten and had to be disposed of. The neighbor had taken no action........you have negligence and therefore a liability claim.

A farmer keeps his cattle in a fenced area. For the 8th time this year they broke through the fence and stood in the middle of a highway where your car hit one at 60 putting you in the hospital and totaling your car. (Happens every year) You could argue that the farmer, due to his repeated refusal to correctly fix the fence, was negligent and his policy should pay your medical, pain, lost time, and car bills.

Now, lets enter in three little words in every insurance contract to make your life even better. No insurance company will pay liability damages to somebody else for.........wait for it..........an "ACT OF GOD" (insert booming voice here).

So odds are if anything ever happens to your property during any type of storm, the odds of getting somebody other than you or your policy to pay for it is slim to none. In this specific situation even this poor guy said nobody expected this type of storm. Therefore there would be no way to prove that he was negligent, on top of that it's gods fault, so better go after vatican city.

_________________
2008 Four Winns 224 Funship 5.0 GXI/DP Black w/ Tower
2007 GMC Crew Cab Short Bed / Bose Ed.
2007 Fourwinns H180 (SOLD)

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people"

I use State Farm for boat, car, homeowners, and umbrella liability and have had great service from them. One boat claim that was handled quickly and more than fairly. I also had help from my agent settling a claim against a neighbor's insurance company for damage to my boat. His son set my canvas on fire.

I can verify Snub Nose Commanders analysis of liability. My neighbors tree fell on my car parked in my yard (with no negligence). I had to pay for repairs to my car.

I remain unconvinced. An otherwise healthy tree being toppled in a storm doesn't directly conflate to negligence on the part of a boat owner. Nor does the loose cow scenario as a boat doesn't have a mind of it's own to go grazing. I understand the notion of 'act of god' but question whether failing to secure one's property would fall under it.

Back to the tree scenario, it's true that unless the tree was otherwise likely to fall it's your own insurance that would cover it, not the owner of the tree. Now, had you notified the owner of said tree beforehand that it was in danger of toppling that might affect it. But this is more like it being visibly dead and dropping limbs, not having it's roots oversaturated due to unexpected rains.

_________________
-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Bill,

I feel like were close but yet so far away. Your analysis of the tree situation is correct, granted and insurance company 99% of the time is still going to deny the claim but if the tree is dead or you have proof that the neighbor has been notified you stand a chance in court.

On to the boats, I'm not saying that failure to secure a vessel wouldn't be or isn't a good claim of negligence. I does happen all the time and some claims are paid under the liability portion of the policy. In this situation based just on the information presented in this forum there would be absolutely no chance of that happening. Let me give you examples.




This statement alone from any one single person at the slip would completely destroy a negligence claim. Wind speed predicted at 30mph....came in a 78mph.........then add in the fact it pulled the piles and you have yourself a true act of god.

I'll give you one more claim example that might be a little better than tree or cow. A large electrical contractor allows their foreman to drive the new van home at the end of shift. He has done this for years and parks it in his driveway. That night a large storm blows through, lifts the cover off of the employee's hot tub and throws it into the van causing damage.

Now had the employee straped the cover down........no......but he hadn't strapped it down for 4 years and this had never happened. His insurance denied the claim and the auto policy paid. So, could that other boat owner have secured his boat better.......I'm sure he could. But for him to pay you would have to prove that he "Always" tied it up better and this was the exception. Not the rule.

_________________
2008 Four Winns 224 Funship 5.0 GXI/DP Black w/ Tower
2007 GMC Crew Cab Short Bed / Bose Ed.
2007 Fourwinns H180 (SOLD)

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people"