www.iFourWinns.com

I noticed that some dealers are using a "better buy it now" approach to influence buyers to make their purchase prior to the 2010 catalytic converter requirement going into effect.

However, as I understand it the spark ignition 4.3L and 8.1L engines (GM blocks) are supposedly exempt. I know that blocks made in 2009 but sold in 2010 are exempt but this exemption is even for blocks made in 2010.

Seems like shoppers need to know this during the deal making as dealers will use this as part of their sales tactics. I don't have the precise details so if anyone can clarify, please chime in.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

You pretty much have it correct. Catalytic converters will be required of every new 2010 stern drive or inboard gas engine anywhere in the U.S., raising the price anywhere from $2,750 to $10,000 for a new boat. All 2010 stern drive and inboard gas engines will have to be EPA emissions compliant. This is set by “engine model year” not the “boat model year.” So it is correct that engines made in 2009 which go into 2010 boat models will not be required to have the catalytic converters.
During 2010, Volvo Penta and MerCruiser will flush out all of the 2009 non-catalytic converter-equipped engines and change over to the new requirement. It means that as the old product is sold off it will be replaced with boats with the catalytic converters – and a higher price tag. The EPA says, “We expect manufacturers to meet these standards with three-way catalysts and closed loop fuel injection.” That effectively signals the end of the venerable 3.0l inline 4cyl for I/O applications.
As the cost to add Fuel Injection and Cat's to the 3.0l will price it right out of the market. So the "entry level" boats will have to be equipped with V6's or Outboards at a minimum, thus raising the cost for a new "entry level" boat. This is one of the reasons for the dealers "Better Buy it Now" push.
Some of the positive aspects are: Cat equipped motors are virtually CO free,stopping fuel line permeation there should not be any odor of gasoline in a boat and chances of explosion should be reduced, and catalytic converters have been found to improve fuel mileage and horsepower slightly.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I can't recall which magazine I read it in ('Boating', I think), but my understanding is the GM 8.1L and 4.3L engines actually made in 2010 are even exempt. I'm just curious why those two motors got a reprieve.

Punchline is that it gives dealers and manufacturers another year before those motors have to comply.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

Well this will be the thing that pushes outboards back on smaller boats since DI outboards in some cases already meet those standards without a cat converter (wonder how'd that work on an OB) and it makes you wonder what about 4 stroke OBs?
I for one would not want an I/O with a cat converter for a few reasons...one being that an exhaust manifold replacement (in salt water regions usually required at 5-7 years) will likely be very expensive (it's not cheap with plain old iron manifolds) and also the fact that a cat has to get pretty hot to work properly I don't like the idea of something that hot which can have a cooling system failure and will turn into an emergency on the water. And those who think technology will save us all should read about how much some Yamaha outboards like ethanol gas (NOT)....so for me either I will buy used I/O boats or switch over to OBs....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

GM produced the last 8.1L motors on 12/18/09. Volvo Penta has secured enough engines to supply customers with the 8.1L engines for sterndrive and IPS power throughout 2010. They are 2009 motors. Volvo Penta’s 8.1LGiE is fuel injected and electronically controlled and is also available with and without an emissions catalyst in 2010. VP said this will allow boat builders to continue to offer non-catalyzed engines for export to regions where catalysts are not required. When they are gone, they are gone for good. The ONLY 2010 model year I/O or Inboard gas engine not requiring a catalyst in the United States is the GM based 4.3L V6. The 4.3L V6 is covered by a U.S. government exemption. Ask your congressman why.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I can fully understand why catalytic converters were mandated for road cars; CO kills pedestrians pretty efficiently and the hydrocarbon and NOx emissions cause smog, especially bad for people with Asthma etc. I also don't understand why big petrol (gas) engines are used in the US in trucks; surely the torque characteristics of a big diesel are much more suitable if you are towing something/ carrying a load of concrete blocks? (turbo diesels are unfortunately popular here in Europe, they sure do pump out some horrible smelling carcinogenic fumes when they are marginally maintained or revved hard ( like BMW and Audi drivers seem to love to do), but the owners are oblivious to all that because it's behind them ).

So, for boats what is the reason?

To reduce CO and instead pump it out as CO2 ? ( just what the atmosphere needs, whether you believe in global warming or not!)

To reduce smog on lakes and the sea ? ( not a big issue as far as I am aware)

To increase fuel consumption so increase tax revenue for the government ? (surely not!). I don't really believe that catalytic convertors reduce fuel consumption, they must increase back pressure in the exhaust. Rather, I think it's more likely that modern electronics and sensors have reduced fuel consumption year on year despite the catalytic convertors.

Graham

Cap'n Morgan, if the 3.0L does fall by the wayside, we can then assume that those engines will be highly undersireable in 5-10 years as the parts become more scarce.

Yet another consideration for boat owners. My guess is the 4.3L got an exemption from Uncle Sam in support of Government Motors.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

Not an assumption I would make. But you are free to, if you wish. Way too many in circulation for parts to become scarce in the time frame you suggest.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I'm not so sure that I believe the 3.0 is a gonner either, with the cat/fi version now being available. I mean, besides the option of an outboard, what other option is there? I haven't seen any release of a replacement engine for the 4.3 when it does go, which would leave only a 5.0 V-8 as the small i/o powerplant option on an entry level boat if the 3.0 were gone. That would be an aweful hit to the cost of an entry level boat.

That leads me to another question, has there been any development done on a 4.3 replacement? Has anyone heard anything?

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2009 H180 w/3.0 Merc
Homebuilt Minimax Hydro
2011 Zodiac Cadet 310

The 3.0L is not going away, but will not be as cost effective on entry level boats as it has been for so many years. Like I said, the addition of catalyst to this engine will not help the price point of the boats it is intended for. The 4.3L V6 will be the engine of choice for many builders in this segment of boats. In model year 2011, you will see less and less boats with the 3.0L offered.
Here is the 2010 engine line up from GMPT, and this is what you will see for the next several years.

http://www.gm.com/experience/technology ... ngines.pdf

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I'd like to see what the boat manufacturers actually will be paying for these sterndrive packages once the cats are fully on line...and then find out what a comparable outboard will cost...and taking into account all factors...purchase price...maintenance...fuel consumption...and only then can a buyer make a decision as to whether the sterndrive or OB is the better choice. I have a love/hate relationship with sterndrives in that keeping them in salt water is a real pain...as the anti fouling paints don't really work the whole season...you will have barnacles in the pivot housing and all over the transom mount...yet when it comes time to re-power...you will be doing so for about half the price of an OB power head...and backyard mechanics like me can easily work on these old school I/O power plants even if they have FI and cats (not that much different than our cars and I haven't quit working on them because of FI...if anything its made diagnostics easier because of the availability of OBD II Scanners)...Not so with modern OBs..even my shop will only work on older OBs and do minor maintenance on the newer ones...no major work...
Lets hope when FI comes to I/Os that they will use some universal scannner so you can plug in and read out fault codes like on our cars...

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

So will the boats now have a plethora of emission sensors like cars or will the catalytic converters just be a bolted on addition?

Time for the nautical version of the check engine light I guess.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

I agree that the 3.0 with the cat would definitely not have the price advantage that the non cat 3.0 currently does over the 4.3, but what happens when the 4.3 is no longer available to use. From what I understood, it would not be available after 2011. At that point, the 3.0 with the cat is the only small engine in the lineup from both VP and Merc before jumping to the 5.0.

I guess what I am saying is regardless of the added cost for the price of a cat, the 3.0 can't be priced out of the market if the only other options are a 5.0 with dual cats, or an outboard in the 100-150 hp range. I would imagine that the fi/cat 3.0 is still the cheapest option out of the group for an entry level boat.

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2009 H180 w/3.0 Merc
Homebuilt Minimax Hydro
2011 Zodiac Cadet 310

Well for the FI to work right and the cats to be kept at the proper temps they will have to use an electronic control unit and sensors (coolant temp...air temp...air mass density...etc just like cars)....And it's really not a bad thing...in fact of all my years of driving fuel injected cars...and maintaining them myself...I've replaced only 2 sensors...both on our 98 Subaru...one knock sensor and one speed sensor...both set a check engine light and I was able to diagnose them in about 1 minute with an OBD-II scanner. That thing more than paid for itself on those 2 repairs...

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

From what I understand Lou, all of the fi sensors on a marine engine are pre burn, and don't include the post burn sensing that a car has (like O2 sensors in the exhaust). This is only what I have heard, and I don't have any experience in this (my little 3.0 is a carby!) I wonder if the cat equipped units change this, and include post burn sensing?

I agree, that the ODB-II sensing is nice in the car for home remedies, and would be equally nice in the boat.

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2009 H180 w/3.0 Merc
Homebuilt Minimax Hydro
2011 Zodiac Cadet 310