www.iFourWinns.com

I was bored and was checking out the Cobalt website. They have a tabular comparison and I found it somewhat humorous that on the "fiberglass stingers" comparison, it states that Four Winns "varies by model". See page four (pg 4):
http://www.cobaltboats.com/ml2010/210/210_0309_150.pdf

I know that Four Winns does not have any boats with any wood stringers and either uses fiberglass or "VEC" composite.

Based on the comparison, the length of warranty is the biggest difference, otherwise the FW is on PAR with Cobalt and Searay. If I were buying a new FWs boat today, I'd buy the extended engine/drive warranty from Volvo Penta as a CYA. Seems cheaper option than paying more $$ for the other two boats.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

Four Winns has LOTS of boats with wood stringers... It does "Vary by model"

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Brett DiMichele

Interesting. So current models have wood stringers? Which ones? Don't all the horizons have fiberglass stringers?

I'm talking about new models, not older ones.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

none of the newer models have wood stringers, not sure of the year break, but probably about '00 to '03

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Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

I think starting in 1999 FWs went to all fiberglass decking. I thought they went to fiberglass stringers at the same time but maybe I'm wrong.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

Brett is correct. In fact, the FW cruisers made today use fiberglass encapsulated stringers. Like the 378 for example in this article.
http://local.jdpower.com/Four_Winns_378 ... er_MS.html

The 180H , for example, does not.
http://www.boatingmag.com/bayliner/shoo ... s?page=0,1

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

They can brag all they want about composites but if the workmanship is not good it has problems just like wood does if the workmanship (or maintenance) is not good...if holes are not sealed and/or the glass is not fully wetted out and in contact with the core when water gets in and freezes you now have de-laminations which are weak spots...some of the highest quality boats out there (Grady and Parker come to mind) that are not lake boats such as FW and Cobalt but offshore fishing boats use wood in their structure...that tells you something.....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

So this post begs the question of whether a "fiberglass encapsulated" stringer is considered to be simply a defacto "fiberglass stringer".

I think FWs lines up the boats in the comparison quite well. Does FWs beat them on price by not having as long a warranty?

Does anyone know the sales volume for Four Winns boats by model? I'm curious what the top selling model is for each boat type.

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

The 180H , for example, does not.
http://www.boatingmag.com/bayliner/shoo ... s?page=0,1[/quote]

So this post begs the question of whether a "fiberglass encapsulated" stringer is considered to be simply a defacto "fiberglass stringer".

No a fiberglass incapsulated stringer is just that....either a wood or foam core that is covered with wetted out fiberglass cloth/mat...if they are referring to solid fiberglass stringers that's another thing entirely...but in the end...the way it's all put together...is what's really important...
Most production boats are going to foam cored stringers...transoms and decks cored with non wood substances (like coosa board) but that doe not mean they will never have problems...and when you have problems with composites of a non-wood variety it's not so easy to get it fixed at a typical fiberglass shop....they are set up to do mostly wood and glass repairs...the new foams and other stuff all have a learning curve....but the 'no wood' mantra sells boats....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

When I toured the factory about 2 months or so ago, I seen everything from small runabouts up to the 358 in the build process and they all used a fiberglass moulded stringer insert (I forgot the exact term they used). This 1 piece moulded insert was set into the hull with an adhesive, then the "inside" insert was set over that, before the top section cockpit or deck, was set. No wood at all. I did see 3 - 458's there but all were way beyond that point so I don't know how they were built.

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Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

So was the place mostly full of Horizons? What was the most common size being built from your observation?

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

Jeff,

Sorry but I have to call BS.... Well not BS but maybe you just couldn't tell. My 248 is an 06 and it's most certainly WOOD. Yes it's fully fiberglass and gelcoat encapsulated but sure enough it's wood under there. And the entire sub floor in the cabin is all wood.

I'm sure the runabouts are a different story, they are MUCH simpler to build. Stingray has been using foam cored, fiberglass stringers for years but they are "simple" in comparison to the floor plan in a FW Cruiser.

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Brett DiMichele

So the reason I even started looking at the Cobalt website was I've frequently heard people refer to them as somewhat of a benchmark and I wanted to see what they offer that Four Winns doesn't.

So if you are comparing boats, what do look for? Price and size for sure. Through bolted stainless hardware, perhaps. So what makes one boat better built in terms of quality?

Since most of the engines and drive systems are universal between boat manufacturers, how does one objectively differentiate itself as "best in class?"

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2003 Four Winns Horizon 220 5.0 GXi/SX

Fit and finish, how the manufacture put everything together that you can not always see with the final product.

Work on different brands, repairing or modifying, crawling in and out of every space, you will see the difference in workmanship right away. Most people just want a toy/boat/RV that looks good but have no idea how it was put together or with what materials.

You are correct that most boat builders all use the same power package, but how they mount to the boat, there could be some differences.

IMHO, Sea Ray does not compare to FW, but thats just me. I would take a Cobalt, but not if I had to pay for it.

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2000 248 5.7L DP
'92, '94 SXI 750, '08 STX 15F, '12 Ultra LX 300
Videos

IMO, not much. I can remember when I started looking at boats 20 years ago. I didn't even know that much about what I was comparing, but common sense and what knowledge I did have about the way things work, etc., made it clear to me that Cobalt was head and shoulders above any other mass produced bowrider - absolutely no comparison. By the time I was able to actually buy a boat, that gap had closed to a tiny fraction - if that - of what it had been. It's not that Cobalt has dropped in quality; I feel they're just as good as they've ever been. But some of the other makes - including FW - have improved so much during that time that I just can't see how Cobalt commands their prices. Off the top of my head, the only thing I can really give Cobalt the edge on is having all molded-in hull graphics instead of the stupid decals FW uses.

My family on both sides comes from a small town very near the Cobalt plant. I've been by there a few times and have seen what happens to that area when industry times are good - and when they're bad. It pains me to see what these conditions are doing to that area, but the fact is that a lot of people don't see a reason to pay a premium.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic