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Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
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Author:  Winedown [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
So here's the deal....my VP manual and the VP launch/lay-up guide list one way to winterize the engine. The mechanic at my marina and the service dept at the dealer down the street (Chap dealer, not FWs but still the same engines) say to do it another way.

For the record, the VP manual and lay-up guide say to run fresh water through the intake hose to flush the engine and get it warmed up and then to shut it down and quickly switch the hose to a bucket of anti-freeze, and fire it back up for a few minutes until the anti-freeze is all that's coming out the back. The manual actually takes it a step further and says to remove the thermostat before flushing the engine with fresh water. Neither the manual nor the layup guide say to drain the block for the winter if this method is used. Here's the link to the lay-up guide....instructions are on page 6. http://www.volvopenta.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/Penta/Laying%20up/english/LayingUp_web.pdf

The mechanics look at it a different way. They say warm the engine up to operating temp, remove the drain plugs and let water drain out, and then run anti-freeze through the system. Doing it the way the manual says will result in a cracked block....so they say.

Needless to say, I am not confused as to what to do. Logic says to follow the VP publications but when two experienced mechanics say no....well, I don't know what to do now. Any thoughts?
Author:  firecadet613 [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
Personally I like to drain the block, then fill it with antifreeze. Make sure to use a screwdriver or piece of wire or something to make sure the drain holes aren't blocked and allow all the water to drain. Then you can be assured there is almost no water left in the block to cause any damage. After I fill it with antifreeze, I pop open the drains and make sure its pink coming out from them, then close it up.
Author:  Cap'n Morgan [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
What have you done with your other boat for winterizing ?

I suspect you had the mechanics at the marina do it. Correct ?

Winedown wrote:
But the more we made, the more we spent. Dept store clearance rack clothes turn into Gap and then into Ralph Lauren. Applebee's turns into Outback turns into Ruths Chris or Mortons. A 10 year old new to me Saturn turns into a brand new Hyundai into a 5 year old new to me Acura to a brand new Audi. The 24' this is big enough boat turns into a 31' this should hold us for a while cruiser.


I think you answered your own question, since you can afford it. :wink: Have the marina mechanics do it their way. It sounds like a good way to do it to me.
Author:  Winedown [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
I had the marina do it in the past as I knew nothing about boats when we first started and I didn't want to take the chance of breaking anything. The first winter they did everything and since then I've started doing more and more myself until the only thing I haven't done is the engine. It doesn't seem hard and I know lots of people that do it themselves, but engines ain't cheap and nobody I've spoken with can really agree on the "right" way to do it....or maybe there isn't a single right way but various methods that all work equally. I'd prefer to save the $500 it'll take to do both engines but I also understand that's cheap insurance to ensure it's done correctly. Decisons, decisions.
Author:  LouC [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
I read through the Volvo manual, and compared to my OMC manual IT STINKS badly translated, vague instructions, which if you followed would result in a cracked block. I'd agree with what the mechanic said, but I'd add that if you drain everything (block, manifolds, hoses, impeller) you'd be fine and could THEN fill it with AF if you want. But if you are a beginner were going to follow that horribly written manual, (can't even call it a manual) I'd say have the dealer do it...

The one for my OMC is very clear with photos and detailed instructions. I had no trouble doing the whole thing myself for the first time 8 years ago when I started in boating...

If you are determined to do this yourself, see if Volvo sells a factory shop manual that covers winterizing, that's gotta be better than that one...

The other thing you could do is ask someone you know has done this before to show you, but honestly that's risky too, I asked my neighbor who has had boats for years but he had no idea about OMCs which are different from Mercs. So I found a good independent ex-OMC dealer, bought a bunch of winterizing stuff from them, asked some questions with the manual there...he answered them all and that's how I learned, but then I've also been maintaining all my own vehicles for close to 40 years and have a stack of shop manuals dating back to the 70s.....
Author:  jsimon [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
The marina has insurance.... Id go with them. Or you could do what I did this year go for heated inside storage. Then you dont have to worry about it.
Author:  Cap'n Morgan [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
jsimon wrote:
Or you could do what I did this year go for heated inside storage. Then you dont have to worry about it.


+1. Have stored indoor heated for the last 7 years. It's worth every penny. But it is alot of pennies, I might add.
Author:  Winedown [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
Wish that was an option here....it would sure make life a lot easier when the cold weather comes around every year.
Author:  sachem29 [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
If its any concellation I winterized for the first time my father-in law's larson merc inboard and just put the muffs
on and ran antifreeze through the motor and in the spring we found that the freeze plug on the port side had blown
out under the riser. oops. At least it was fixable. I,ve since "learned" that by draining the engine prior to adding
antifreeze you are vastly reducing your odds of blowing a freeze plug or worse yet cracking your block. Think about it
by draining the engine you have a more "pure" antifreeze mix than that of "mixing" with water in the engine. Good luck
with your decision. N
Author:  Winedown [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
My decision was made by a little experiment I did this afternoon with some bottles of water and antifreeze. I took two bottles....emptied one half way and the other about a quarter way and then refilled both with -60 antifreeze. That gave me one bottle with a 50/50 mix and one with a 75/25 mix (75% being water). Stuck both in the deep freezer in the garage this afternoon and as of 10 minutes ago both are frozen solid. Looks like I'm draining the block....or more likely paying the pros to do it so I don't worry about it all winter.
Author:  LouC [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
The last 2 posts prove what I've been saying here, if you want to use AF for corrosion protection, then you can roll the dice and be lazy and not pull out the drain plugs (suck the AF up the drive) or do it the right and safe way and drain and backfill. And, use the better -100 AF, rather than the -60 stuff which can be used but it slushes up at about 10 *F which did not make me real comfortable. I also put a bottle of each in the freezer at zero degrees to see what happened, the -60 got hard (but did not expand as advertised) but the -100 was completely liquid. Now the -100 is about 5 buck a bottle more than the -60, which one would you rather have in your engine/manifolds all winter?

Anyway all this winterizing talk has convinced me to put closed cooling on my next engine from new, then I won't have to stretch to get at the block drain plugs, only the manifolds and raw water system.....
Author:  Partycove2 [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
Well, only because everyone has an opinion, here is mine.

When it comes to winterizing, I like to go for the "overkill" method and here is what I do.
My method takes 3 gallons of straight antifreeze per engine which I mix 50/50...BTW, I use regular automotive antifreeze (the green stuff) because of the corrosion inhibitors. some of the RV stuff does not have corrosion inhibitor in it, I believe the purple does.

Before starting, I tape over my raw water intake hole on the outdrives, this keeps all the AF from running out and make sure your drives are down

1) drain the block and manifolds (for volvo that is 4 plugs on each engine), probe the holes as already mentioned
- with the plugs removed lift up on the hot water tank hoses to be sure they all drain also (if you have this option)
- reinstall all the plugs
2) mix 2 gallon of AF 50/50 with water (mix it) in a 5 gallon bucket with hose fittings, connect it to my flush out and run the engine until the bucket is almost empty.
3) mix another gallon 50/50 with water (mix it), remove the large hose connected to the thermostat housing and pour AF into the hose until it comes out the thermostat housing

By doing it this way I dont have to worry whether the thermostat is opened or not, I know everything is full and protected
Author:  hurst01 [ Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
I used to do the antifreeze thing. When I bought my first boat the antifreeze was around $2.25- $2.50 / Gal, and sometimes $1.99. Money was tight back then, and still is. I quit pouring good antifreeze through the engines and just started draining the block on both sides, the manifolds, risers, and took the hoses off from the water pump and drained them. Put everything back on and it was ready for next time. By doing that there was no need to pull the thermostat. 30 years of doing that with no cracked blocks or manifolds.
I started doing this because every time there was a nice day, my boat was back in the water. After having to do it 4 and 5 times, or more each year it was too expensive. If it has no water, it can't freeze. It got to a point that I could prepare it in about 20 minutes and gone.
Just FYI, freeze plugs are really not intended to be freeze plugs. The are actually "Expansion" plugs. Sometimes there are those that will get lucky and the freeze plugs will push out but most of the time the block will crack first. The expansion plug holes were originally intended as a means to get the sand out of the casting of the block after cooling. The freeze plugs (expansion plugs) were installed as a means to fill the hole. They picked up the name of freeze plugs when someone was lucky enough for them to push out during a light freeze.
Now that straight antifreeze is $12-$16 a gallon guess what I am doing? This is not meant to change anyone's way of doing the winterization, it is merely my .02 cents worth, and that is not worth anything. You need to understand that when a marine dealer winterizes for a customer that he is responsible should it freeze and crack. Therefore, they will do as the owners manual says and run antifreeze through it. That is why they say to warm the engine first so as to have the antifreeze go through the thermostat. Problem is, if the antifreeze is cold it will close the thermostat, another reason it is recommended to remove the thermostat. By just draining the water, it is of utmost importance to make sure positive that you know the location of each and every drain plug. I am still likely to drop my boat in the water at the hint of a nice day. I also installed drain petcocks instead of plugs. If I don't see water flowing freely, I pull it and clean behind it.
Author:  Paul I. [ Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Follow the manual or the mechanic's advice?
Hi

There is always more than one right way to do things!!! First is your system a closed (FWC) or open pulling sea water into your block??

The closed system is MUCH easer!!!! Just drain down the manifolds and raw water pump.

On the open system, myself, I would just drain the block, manifolds, and the raw water pump. Then pour a cup of -100 antifreeze down some of the hoses. -100 can be cut with any water left in the block by 50% without a problem. The engine is know alset for the winter. To carry it one more step. I would then put the block drain plugs in, pull the thermostat and full the block up with -50 AF. Why, because with air in the block it is now pron to rust. This is another reason for a closed system.

The piont is, DRAIN THE WATER OUT OF THE BLOCK. No water = no problems later

Paul
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