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85% Ethanol
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Author:  cabwizard [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  85% Ethanol
Hi Everyone,
I just heard on the news in Buffalo the the EPA have given the go ahead for 15% ethanol to be added to our fuel, up from 10%. Now I am not sure as to these figures being appropriate for our boats or vehicles, I have yet to read up on my Toyota handbook, but Acura and Hyundai both recommend no more than 10% ethanol, Both my vehicle and boat are 2008 models FW H200 volvo 4.3 pre catalytic exhaust, one of the reasons I went for the 08 model which I bought this time last year, new a left over from a dealer, I think was a good price at the time $29k I got all the safety bits and bobs thrown in inc anchor vests flares etc.. But how long before we have to change the fuel lines. Plus they are getting more tax for less gas and up go the food prices down the line.
Its bad enough we only have 85 and 87 octane.
Over in the UK the 2 base fuels are 95 and 97 octanes, maybe the price reflects it but when you work out the price per liter and there are 4.54 liters to the Imperial gallon as opposed to 3.85 to the US gallon the difference is heavy tax in the UK. it works out at todays price and exchange rate to $7.73 per US gallon.
But we are certainly heading the way.
Not all doom and gloom. Spring is not far way as I look at this weekend temps of anything between -5 low to 10F It gives us time to put a bit extra away for gas Lol Keep smiling :D Ray
Author:  298VISTA2000 [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
cabwizard wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I just heard on the news in Buffalo the the EPA have given the go ahead for 15% ethanol to be added to our fuel, up from 10%.


I may drink Nat Light piss water, but I'm not putting that E-15 piss gas in my boat if they ever try that down here. Our yacht club tried E-10 one year and went to premium the next year due to all the complaints. I hope Al Gore gets eaten by a polar bear.
Author:  Bliss36 [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
Image :lol:

Quote:
"It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for first-generation ethanol," Reuters quoted Gore saying of the U.S. policy that is about to come up for congressional review. "First-generation ethanol I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small.

"One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president," the wire service reported Gore saying.



Politics as usual..and we all pay the price :roll:
Author:  Kelleyo [ Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
I think Ethanol is horrible in Marine applications due to alcohols propensity to collect water. Also very bad (corrosive) to fuel systems.

See here: http://www.fuel-testers.com/marine_boat_ethanol_problems.html

I hope this site does some E15 testing now.

I had horrible problems with E10 in my previous boat with a 2 stroke OB.
Author:  Bliss36 [ Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
I don't want to hijack this thread, but along the same lines I'm curious as to what you guys do to combat ethanol problems? Like Kellyo stated alchohol absorbs water like a sponge. I've only run one tankfull of pump gas through my boat since I've owned it(filled up during delivery at gas station), but even with using "ethanol free" marina gas I still use a treament at every fill up just in case. Do you use an additive?

Based on what I've read and the advice given to me by the service manager at my dealership, I've used this product since day one.
Image
Author:  LouC [ Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
You know if the materials in boat fuel systems were truly alcohol resistant then there wouldn't be such a concern other than the propensity of E-10 to absorb water through the open gas tank vent (which vehicles do not have obviously). But I have had to rebuilt the Quadrajet on our boat 2x in 8 years, and we had a 75 Olds also with a Quadrajet that was run on straight gas and we didn't have to rebuild that one once in 15 years. So there are issues here and I think the problem could be easily solved by exempting small engines, classic cars and boats from having to use any ethanol fuels. The FAA already bans it from use in planes, why not boats as well?
Author:  298VISTA2000 [ Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
LouC wrote:
The FAA already bans it from use in planes,


I wonder why? How would you like to be in a Cessna 10 thousand feet up and the engine starts to act up? LOL.
Author:  LouC [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
No more than I'd like to be in Long Island Sound in a 20' boat when the wind picks up. It's not a good situation and so far I have been lucky with not having operational problems with the ethanol (stalling, hesitation, etc). You really have to stay on top of your fuel filters and making sure that your deck fills do not leak water when it rains. Anyone who uses E-10 gas (see we have no choice here) should consider using the Racor fuel filters with the metal bowl, they are the best out there but I have had good luck with the 10 micron Sierra filters. So far each year I have checked them when I winterize I have not found water in the gas. A neighbor had problems with his old 28' Wellcraft with twin 350s, we checked the filter on the problem engine and he had more water than gas in it! I told him to get the tank pumped and replace the gas cap but he did not and has been chasing fuel problems for 2 summers. Last summer I caught up to him on the water and he showed me again how much water he had in there. IF I found water I'd remove the sending unit and take a look in the tank, if I saw water in the bottom I'd try to carefully pump as much if it out as I could, if you can't do that, then hire a contractor who does this professionally. And remember that it's our ignorant politicians that have allowed this to happen, putting you at risk, costing you money, and with no real benefit to anyone but special interest groups....
Author:  sachem29 [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
As far as recip-airplanes go using ethanol in fuel is a recipe for disaster. Many if not most small aircraft are carburated and are
highly succeptable to ice in the carb, hence they call it carb icing. The preventitive measure is using carb heat at low rpm
settings. Also FYI 100octane avgas has lead in it still.
No offence but being a pilot I would rather be in a boat in the long island sound with engine problems than in an aircraft 5000'
above anywhere. :!:
So as you can see using ethanol in avgas does two things, it increases the chance for carb icing and lowers the octane rating.
thats why its not used, but a gallon of avgas goes for 5 to 6 bucks a galon.
As far as turbine powered aircraft go biofuels are already being "tested" in commercial aircraft. As soon its cheap enough it will
be used mixed with traditional jet fuel.
Author:  cabwizard [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
Hi From what was said on the news on Friday night, it cost as much in oil to produce ethanol as what it saves.
Guess they need to start exploring Alaska for oil.
Author:  Kelleyo [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
You can thank the ADM lobbyists for propagandizing the myth that Ethanol is our savior. We subsidize the heck out of making Ethanol.

This results in 4 things:
1. Costs the taxpayers tons of money
2. Raises the cost of food as corn and sugar cane are diverted to the more (unnaturally due to subsidy) profitable Ethanol production.
3. Damages our equipment (see previous posts)
4. Makes losts of profit for ADM.
Author:  kp47 [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
Kelleyo wrote:
You can thank the ADM lobbyists for propagandizing the myth that Ethanol is our savior. We subsidize the heck out of making Ethanol.

This results in 4 things:
1. Costs the taxpayers tons of money
2. Raises the cost of food as corn and sugar cane are diverted to the more (unnaturally due to subsidy) profitable Ethanol production.
3. Damages our equipment (see previous posts)
4. Makes losts of profit for ADM.


Elections have consequences, bottom line is we are going to be forced to buy something we dont want or need so someone can make a lot of money. Ethanol subsidies were snuck in the tax cut deal..

I'm not worried about it, looks like next season gasoline at our marina will be over 5.00 a gallon so another 5% of ethanol isnt my main concern.
Author:  Thalasso [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
The EPA issued a waveir for boats. They can still use fuel without ethanol. We have gas at our marina without ethanol.
Author:  LouC [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
Here we have no choice, I think the EPA forces ethanol on you partly as a function of pollution levels in your area, pretty much all of Southern New York has ethanol, even marina stations....
Author:  298VISTA2000 [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 85% Ethanol
Thalasso wrote:
The EPA issued a waveir for boats. They can still use fuel without ethanol. We have gas at our marina without ethanol.


I believe you are correct because our yacht club tried ethanol in 2009 but had so many complaints that they promptly went back to non-ethanol. I wondered how they got non-ethanol gas and I guess that explains it. Maybe I won't have to buy 3 sets of fuel filters this season.
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