The Kid wrote:
Depending on options low retail on the boat is around $100k~$120 (on the high side).
But Dealer Wholesale price in your dealer NADA guide is more like $85K to $90K. Isn't it.
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| Author: | SW Florida Dave [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Trade In Culture Shock |
We looked at a SeaRay 40 Sedan Bridge on Saturday. When Marine Max came back with the first round of numbers they were at $80k for my boat. I said they had to do better and they went to $91k. Still not close so we went on our way. I guess the market for an 19 month old boat just isn't what it used to be. Has anybody else had the same experience? |
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| Author: | Winedown [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
Trades are always ugly. It really comes down to a matter of convenience for the person doing the trading. Much easier to unload it on the dealer vs. a private sale....only problem is you'll very rarely (if ever) get anywhere near what you actually want for the boat. |
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| Author: | SW Florida Dave [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
I was expecting a hit but 50% depreciation is hard to swallow in side two years. But like you said trading is always a crap shoot. |
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| Author: | Cap'n Morgan [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
The numbers sound about right for a trade in. And the 50% depreciation is not unexpected either. Trade in value is based on the dealer wholesale price he "wants" to pay for the boat, not what it will sell for in the market. It is a tough pill to swallow for sure. |
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| Author: | The Kid [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
Your signature says the boat is a 2008... so to us dealers the boat is 4 years old regardless of when you bought it. With 2012 models only 5 months away that puts the boat even older. Just a little dealer in site.. |
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| Author: | cougarcruiser [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
I'm sure Bryan can look this up for you... any broker/dealer can. BUC value. I looked up BUC value on mine earlier in the year as I was considering a refi. Low Buc on a 2008 318 with lots of options and in good shape... low buc retail -- was around the 135-140 mark. High was 150-160. This was in the Seattle mark and included options (not just the base price) I do not know what wholesale was. Maybe Bryan can dig that up for you. I see 15, maybe 20% below low buc retail for a trade in because a dealer rarely sells at low buc (at least in Seattle). Most customers will pay to mid/high buc from a dealer (at least here in Seattle). From my perspective... I would have thought (and still think) that a realstic 'trade in' value for a 2008 318 is around the 120 mark. Again, Seattle market. Some folks I ran that by felt it was fair as long as I was making up for it by spending a significant amount more on a larger boat. In Washington, we have the benefit of a sales tax credit - so a trade in at 120, is the same as a private party sales price of 120+10%. Coincidentally, there is a 2006 318 listed here in the area for 160k. It was at 180k for a couple years before that. He can't sell much lower than 160 because of what he owes on it. Doesn't that suck! and a 2008 338 - the white, sister ship of our boat that sold for a bit over 140 a while back (the one I posted on here). It's back up for sale at 160k. |
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| Author: | The Kid [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
Depending on options low retail on the boat is around $100k~$120 (on the high side). |
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| Author: | Cap'n Morgan [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
The Kid wrote: Depending on options low retail on the boat is around $100k~$120 (on the high side). But Dealer Wholesale price in your dealer NADA guide is more like $85K to $90K. Isn't it.
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| Author: | The Kid [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
aye aye Cap'n 
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| Author: | Sierra [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
For what it's worth, I had a completely different experience with my recent trade/purchase. I got an exceptionally fair, some might say too fair number for my trade. So fair that, in negotiations, it didn't make sense to focus on the trade number and I concentrated the negotiating on what I was buying. It really made for a more pleasant buying experience right from the beginning of the process. I realize the margins are different as the purchase numbers get bigger and the math can be manipulated to get what they need to get and make me feel good about it in the end, but I was also pleased with the new boat's bottom line when all was said and done. It was obviously important for the selling dealer to move the boat but the trade number I was offered right from the start was not dependent on a particular boat and I had been considering several from their inventory. It felt like two completely separate deals which, when possible, seems like the best situation to be in. And I still got the sales tax break. Point being, it's not all doom and gloom and I wish the same experience for anyone looking to trade these days. |
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| Author: | cougarcruiser [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
Guess that brand new one can be bought for 40-50% off MSRP then... It really is a game of numbers... |
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| Author: | SW Florida Dave [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
Sierra is that your old boat on the Marine Max site? I truly understand that it is a numbers game as Cougar said I guess I am just wondering where the bottom is or is that were the big dealers say it is. It appears from the outside looking in that SeaRay stears this market and all others follow in somewhere below that. In my case the boat I am looking at is a 2002 with standard options and 180 hrs. Based on the original numbers it listed for 525,000 so you figure after 10 + years were would it be in comparison? Or is this apples and orange's. Just trying to learn as it appears those of us who bought new are paying a costly lesson for now. The smaller boats I have owned appear to have held value better or is it FW? I don't know which brings me back to my first paragraph. Just thinking. |
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| Author: | cougarcruiser [ Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
The market for anything in the 75k-500k is VERY soft. I don't think there is anywhere in the US that would dispute that. Anything up and beyond that range is pretty well insulated by wealth - even in an economic downturn. Sea Ray seems to be the major player in most markets. I agree with Sierra there. I should note that before I sent the H240 back to Winnisquam, the local Sea Ray dealer here offered me 30k on a boat that was less than a year old with a sticker in the high 60's/low 70s (as I recall). It was a total lowball. Buy low, sell high. It works. They know it does. People do it all the time. That being said, their willingness to deal will be affected by their desire to sell another boat in their inventory. Look for the 'delta' rather than the pure number. Wiggle on all sides. Anytime you trade something in, it's not the same as an outright purchase. There's alot more wiggle room to determine which side of a deal the dealer wants to profit on. |
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| Author: | Decision [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
If I was trading our 328 in on a newer larger boat I would view our boats trade in value and the newer boats purchase price in a manner that cougarcruiser describes in his last paragragh of his post above. The dealer may try and make you happy with offering you what you feel is a good trade value but then take that back by not dropping their price as much on your newer boat. I feel you need to really determine what you feel is an acceptable difference you would be willing to pay on a "specific" boat however the dealer would like to break it down. It is a numbers game as said, especially with all the variables that can impact a boats price in a given area. Mike. |
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| Author: | Cap'n Morgan [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade In Culture Shock |
Numbers game for sure. The problems can arise when you have bought a new boat, did not pay a significant downpayment, have not owned it long enough to let the depreciation settle down, and thus owe more than the dealer will offer you. You can take the hit, and roll the "loss" of the trade in into the new boat purchase (dumb), sell your boat yourself for more than you will get on a trade in, or just suck it up and hold onto your current boat and pay more of it off. Several possibilities to explore, it just depends on your particular situation, wants, and needs. We went through this whole scenario last spring. The difference being, I knew up front what our 268 was worth to a dealer, did the math ahead of time, and was prepared with numbers that would work on a trade for a bigger boat. Then it was in the dealers' court to make it happen so everyone was happy. It took some time, but he did it. Some dealers will not take the time and effort to make a sale happen, unless it is in HIS best interest. But from my experience, and Sierras', some will. |
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