Oil and Fuel filter change ??

Mark T · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:47 am

I just bought a 1994 235 Sundowner and took it to a Four Winns dealer in Elkhart for initial service and winterization. Was charged $178 for oil and fuel filter change. Seems kinda high, and I probably could have done it myself, but wanted them to go over the boat look at bellows ( cracked ) Gimble bearings and give the boat a good once over. Was the oil/fuel filter charge too high ? and more importantly, what else should I have them look at. The boat only has 465 hours, was never kept in the water and is in really incredible condition.

Borchik · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:42 pm

Well thats not that bad if they pulled the drive to look at the gimbal, ujoints, etc. Factory branded oils are outrageously priced now so that wouldnt surprise me.

Mark T · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:43 pm

NO, that was the price BEFORE pulling off the lower unit which they are doing now after they showed me the 2" crack in the lower bellows unit. Thanks for the response. I think next year, the winterizing, oil change, and other basic maintenance I will do as I have an indoor heated building I can keep the boat in over winter.

97_245_sd · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:11 pm

That's about what I've paid for an oil change on our boat. Oil + filter is about $30 to $40. Fuel filter is $25-30. Labor is usually about $90/hour and on my boat getting to the filter requires taking the seat base apart so you can lay down down on the engine and reach back there. It adds up quick.

If I had the space to do it I'd do it myself but I've had it done while they do the outdrive service which I don't have the proper equipment to do.

LouC · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:14 pm

The better oils (I use an HD oil like Chevron Delo 400) cost about $4 a quart, and the oil and fuel filters are about 8 bucks each depending on where you buy em, so for 5 qts and the 2 filters you're already up to $36, labor depends on access, some boats are easy and some require removing the whole rear seat. I modified my boat so the rear seat can be removed in sections and so can the bulkhead between the seat and the engine, that makes it take less time. Like 10 min to get one side out of the way and then I can get in there and do both filters. I do not like the newer boats with all the molded in fiberglass around the engine. Makes a non-remote filter change or a starter change a real pain.

ric · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:09 pm

178?

I used a top of the line K&N oil filter, and Rotella 15w40 which is better then anything the dealer uses by 10x. Oil was $20, Filter was $10.

You got ripped off. What they used cost a total of around...$10. Factory marine oil filters don't have a standard automotive function.. high pressure bypass. So if your oil gets dirty and clogs the filter, get ready for a rod through the block. It's a built in marine function to generate more $$ for the manufacturer. Something that should be a lawsuit considering we're using automotive engines that have been using bypass oil filters for the last..idk... 50+ years? Con artists I tell you.

aguyindallas · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:12 pm

ric wrote:

178?

I used a top of the line K&N oil filter, and Rotella 15w40 which is better then anything the dealer uses by 10x. Oil was $20, Filter was $10.

You got ripped off. What they used cost a total of around...$10. Factory marine oil filters don't have a standard automotive function.. high pressure bypass. So if your oil gets dirty and clogs the filter, get ready for a rod through the block. It's a built in marine function to generate more $$ for the manufacturer. Something that should be a lawsuit considering we're using automotive engines that have been using bypass oil filters for the last..idk... 50+ years? Con artists I tell you.

Do you have proof that this is a ploy to generate money for mfrs? That's a pretty bold statement.

As to the cost....it's about right. Figure on 30-40 bucks for parts and oil along with an hour of labor, sounds reasonable. Sure, you may be able to save the labor money and do it yourself....if you are inclined and equipped. If not, no big deal. Boats aren't cheap and a dealer charging for labor or making a profit isn't unethical either.

Mark T · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:01 am

Thanks for the responses !! Will be interesting to see what else they think needs to be done on the boat after they get the lower unit off for gimble inspection.

The "admiral" wanted someone who knew what they were doing to do the first service work on the boat since we have never owned one. Next fall I will do most of the winterizing since it will

Now I just need to figure out how to post a picture so you all can see it.

ric · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:45 pm

There's tons of pics out on the web how sierra oil filters do not have a high pressure bypass and they are the most common filter used on boats. There are zero mechanical or engineering reasons to not include the "bypass" feature unless the design of the filter is to stop circulating oil after a specified length of time, destroying the engine.

A $2 FRAM filter is superior in quality and design to even the most expensive "marine" filter. $15 a quart Quicksilver outdrive oil is $3 a quart dino oil you get at autozone in generic bottles. Next to that they sell Mobil 1 synthetic gear oil for $10, the best outdrive oil in the world.

You actually void the warranty on your Volvo Penta outdrive if you use dinosaur oil.

TX H210SS · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am **Posts:** 1488

That's not unreasonable, but something you can do yourself and save money for those tough tasks you don't want to take on alone. Maintenance is really enjoyable as long as within ability. I personally do my own winterizing inclusive of oil change, fuel filter change, low unit oil, drive oil change and greasing all ports. I also change my own water pump each year now that i have the volvo-penta.

Naturally all the cleaning and trailer maintenance is mine too - i can do the inspections on hoses, belt, bellows, prop shaft lube blah blah blah.......i chose to go with high end manufacturer brand recomended fluids, which for me is VP full synthetic 30 wt. Every 3rd year i will pay the mechanic to pull the drive and inspect and change bellows plus check engine alignment. The drive pull is not something i chose to take on.....the money i save doing the rest makes up for that tasks. OH - always replace bellows when you pull drive and if in doubt change parts - will save bucks.

OH - I always thought to not use 4w oil in marine use???? am i wrong on that?

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:01 pm

40 weight oil was specified by Merc for temps over 50* when they were recommending single weight oils, I use straight 40 and don't have starting problems down to 45* F and it holds hot oil pressure very well, like 20 psi at hot slow idle (600 rpm).

I pull the drive every year, in salt water it's pretty much necessary, and don't forget if you have a older OMC or a Volvo SX, there is no way to grease the driveshaft splines, without removing the drive. After one year, even the best marine grease (OMC/Bombardier triple guard grease) is worn off the driveshaft. No way I'd wait 3 seasons to grease it. I think if you do that, depending on the hours you put on, you could be wearing out the splines in the coupler (it's aluminum), the driveshaft is steel which is a lot harder. If the coupler fails you have to pull the engine, and the coupler itself is not cheap.
I know on some Mercs you can grease the drivshaft splines without removing the drive. I pull the drive, check the bellows for water and gear oil, and grease and check the gimble bearing and u-joints. That, and checking for water in the gear oil, will keep a sterndrive working well for a long time.
BTW, I have found that the bellows used on OMC Cobras and Volvo SXs (they are actually the same part) last a long time if the drive is stored in the down position. Mine is going on 7 years old, I will check the rubber again this spring and may replace it then, but it's been fine so far. Look for stress cracks in between the folds.....

Borchik · **Posted:** Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:56 am

Using marine branded oils and filter will cost the dealer more than $10 for sure. And not looking to get into any large debate but someone posted about the quality of a fram filter...they are junk, Im not sure there is any filter that I would say a fram is better than. Cut one apart sometime. you might as well put a roll of toilet paper in a canister because thats what a fram is....unless you go with their racing series.

TX H210SS · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am **Posts:** 1488

Maybe i should start with the unit removal and greasing every other year then...makes since since there is no grease fitting for the gimble. FYI-I only boat in fresh water and unfortunately the drought resulted in a grand total of 4 hours on the boat this year:(

my oil statement was more geared for the W, being the variable viscosity oil.....i had always understood to not use the "w" in a boat just never really understood why not.

LouC · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:23 am

W just means winter, you are saying, not to use a multi-vis, that used to be true but oils are better now and Volvo does spec multi vis for their engines (like a 20W-50) but I'd not use a lighter weight like a 10W-30, it will shear down to a 20 after some hours. A straight weight HD oil like Chevron Delo 400 straight 30 or 40 actually gives the most protection. Then next I'd use their 15w-40 if you need low temperature starting to be better than a straight wt. I only boat over 60F so I use straight 40.....

Mark T · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:09 pm

Checked my statement and the dealer used Chevron HD 30 oil and a Fram PH8AFP cellulose and synthetic glass full flow filter. They also changed the fuel filter, so based on everyone's comments, I feel comfortable with the dealer, but will do these myself at the end of the season next year.

Before pulling the lower unit off, showed me the exterior bellows unit had 2" crack in it, had them check the Gimbal bearing as long as unit was off. Said it had original OMC stamp on it and while it was still functioning, they believed it was the original. Boat is a 1994 so I had them replace it just in case. Was I over cautious ? Overall will be spending about $ 1400, for all new bellows, new Gimbal, oil and fuel filter changer, change stern drive lubricant, new trim relay switch, new belts and hoses, painting of pulley's, impeller change and waterpump replacement, new bunk carpet, and winterization.

www.iFourWinns.com

Oil and Fuel filter change ??

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