www.iFourWinns.com

Bill
I understand what you are saying and being safe is object#1. I don't think you understand what a GMI 10 is though. It's not handheld but mounted. It's basically a small 3.5" multi function display with hard buttons to change the displayed data which you preprogram. Here's an image


I believe this is the unit you have. I honestly have not done a ton of research on it so I can't speak of it's function and data display possibilities

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Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Hi to all!!!

I think Bill was talking about a hand held GPS?? I could be wrong, but thats how I took it.

Oh well!!!

I feel too, that the Garmin unit is made more for sail boats than for motor boats. The helm on a sail boat is setup that most gauges are farther away and surface mounted. Both Lowrance units will fit "stock" panels/dashes. In other words, take out one of your old gauges and drop one of these in. BOTH units will basically tell you the same thing. GPS pos, wind, fuel, temp,.......................

Paul

The Garmin GMI-10 maybe used on any type of boat, I have personally seen very few on sailboats, and many on powerboats.

Here is Al's install on his Carver 325

http://www.boat-project.com/nav/gmi10.htm

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Yes, I was speaking of handheld setups, like trying to use a phone for the job. That and I'm not a fan of fixed-mount touchscreens either. It's problematic trying to use a touchscreen when dealing with a moving boat. I'd certainly like a hybrid setup (touchscreen and buttons) but my helm doesn't have room for one. Next boat, maybe I'll have more options.

The Lowrance is $150, the GMI-10 is $400. To me it's not worth that much more. That and I believe it wasn't available when I installed my setup. Even if it had been it still wouldn't fit anywhere on the helm. I wanted the larger Lowrance gauge but it was about 3/8" too big to fit where I could see it.

I'm certainly not saying not to get something, or that everyone has to go with my solution. I'm just sharing my experience.

One thing I have been glad to add was an ST-60 multifunction gauge. I added it down in the cabin, on the cabinet wall next to the companionway steps. It shows depth, water temp and time. The three most often asked questions from my wife and guests. Now I don't have to leave the chartplotter running all the time when we're at anchor (it's a battery hog). Just the sensors and the two gauges. That way I can also page the one up on the helm to get the data too. Networked systems are great for this sort of stuff.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

HI

For me it's just the opposite. Raymarine (http://www.raymarine.com/Default.aspx?s ... n=2&page=6)makes a display (not nmea2K) for years that I have seen on sailboats mounted by the cabin door or someplace that is handy for them. More for wind speed & direction!!! But this is all useless info!!!!

What counts is what is RIGHT for you. For me, Lowarence's 3" & 2" display. The smaller one as a gas gauge, and the other, mainly a fuel monitor, SOG, and what ever else I can do with it.

Paul

When sailing you generally need to see several values all at once, and at a distance. So it's important to have multiple needle gauges for things like wind, rudder and compass. You need to be able to see them from several vantage points, as you'll be moving to different sides of the boat as it maneuvers around. Your hands are going to be pretty busy sailing the boat, not fiddling with screen paging. For racing it's even more important for several people to be able to see the values to let them get each job done independently. Sailing fast is a lot of work (more than I ever really want to bother with).

On a powerboat there's generally only one person that needs to see the data. And most of the gauges will be in easier reach and viewed from only one position. That and you're not so much looking at the current values as much as you're looking to NOT see changes. You want to be able to see engine RPM and temps ALL the time. You're not so much concerned as to what the current value is. What you're concerned about is whether the value has changed from where it's supposed to be under regular operation. As in, are my oil and water temps stable? Otherwise a hose might have blown or an oil pump failed. In either case, knowing about them quickly is important. Like knowing to shut down the engine before it overheats, or deal with a leaking hose before the boat sinks. That's why these values generally have their own gauge, or portion of a multifunction one.

Networked gauges makes it a lot easier to set up as many, or as few, gauges as you need to get the job done. Without a lot of added wiring or connections.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Hi to all!!!!

Just to make one thing clear. When I said "But this is all useless info!!!!" I meant, not what the displays are showing, but how and why sail boaters use them. The main topic is, which display to use and why, Garmin or Lowrance.

Bill said it BETTER than I. Sail boaters do need bigger displays for more reasons than us power boater which I did not want to go into.

My BIGGER concern NOW is that (I just discovered) that you can only have one device attached to your fuel sender to your tank. I did want to add one (NMEA2000), but the more think of it, I really don't need it!!! Between the GPS & the fuel flow monitor, the display should be able to show MPG/KPG. I thought, which BOTH Garmin & Lowrance do not state in there product manuals that you need one device per sender!!!!

Paul

I can't speak for the Garmin gear, but the Lowrance ones do use one sensor per fuel line. I have two, one for each engine. They're networked along one wire, using tee fittings. The Lowrance sensors are in-line with the fuel hose. They do not tap off the tank at all. They read the fuel flowing through them. I'd imagine anyone else's fuel flow sensors would do the same.

I think the only time you wouldn't use a sensor would be if the engine system itself was tracking the data. AND that data was made available on a field-connectable network. Note I'm emphasizing field-connectible. Just because a network exists doesn't mean you should connect to it. I have a NMEA2k network running between my engine computers. But I do not tap into it. The last thing I want is for any other network issues or traffic to interfere with the safe operation of the engines. I've read recently that NMEA2K bridges have started to come onto the market. I don't really need to get to the data present in the engine network (it's only transmission gear, rpms and throttle position). If there was more data, like oil and water temps, then I'd use a bridge to control extracting ONLY that data. But this is a technical conversation probably beyond the scope of this forum thread.

Back to my setup, two in-line fuel sensors spliced into the fuel hoses leading to each engine. Each one is wired to a tee. The tees are then wired up to tees for a single gauge, a GPS puck up on the arch, and then to the chartplotter. I'd imagine this would be similar to what any other vendor's setup would require. The gauge calculates MPG based on the flow rate and the GPS SOG (speed over ground).

If you're talking about a tank level sensor that's something entirely different. I don't know that I'd ever bother with one as the floats are notoriously unreliable. That and the level will fluctuate quite a lot based on the boat's attitude (rising up on plane) or pitching around in waves. Yeah, I pay attention to my tank levels on the analog gauges and if I had no choice other than to use a digital gauge I'd certainly go for it. But I'd never trust the tank levels on a boat, mine nor anyone else's.

Better to track flow rates, that way you KNOW what's been consumed. If you take the time to tell the gauge how much fuel you've just loaded then it can 'do the math' to calculate your remaining amount. As well as estimate all kinds of other values. I do not think you can accurately calculate MPG from anything other than flow rate and GPS. I mean, it's possible to use it for a guesstimate but that's nowhere near as accurate as using fuel flow rate.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Hi Bill,
You could use digital fuel gauges and I do agree with your past post. I will explain later in this.

I think I did not explain myself clearly. I am talking about the sender in the fuel tank, in other words, how much fuel is in the tank. My problem is, the tank only has one sender for the fuel level!! You can NOT hook up two devices to it!! I could remove the sender & install a dual sender unit. But I hate to break the factory seal & I would have no way of pressurizing the tank to do a test. (it's not that important) So, I ether use the stock fuel gauge or hookup Lowrances EP-65R Fluid Level Sensor and install the small digital gauge and use the big one for every thing else.

What problems I have...........

Paul

But why even bother? The level in the tank isn't useful for actual fuel calculations. The only reason I could see to use sensor on it would be if you had no other gauge. As in, your existing one was broken and you wanted to replace it with a digital gauge. I've seen people do this. But there you'd still only be having one sensor off the sender. From an electronics standpoint it is possible to set up a circuit that would allow running more than one sensor. But I don't think I've ever seen one for sale for marine use. This would be critically important as the risk of fuel explosions is FAR too great to go with any half-assed hacks. Insurance people are rather picky about paying out claims due to improperly set up gear...

It's not uncommon to put in several digital gauges. Some like the idea of making the switch to all electronic gauges. Set them up with their most common uses and then some infrequently used alternatives. Like having a page with dual needle gauges, one for oil temp and the other for water temp. Along side with another whole gauge showing port/starboard fuel levels. Others with the engine RPMs, etc. But then have other pages within the gauges for other values like fuel flow and pressure (some engine systems make it available, typically e-tec outboards). Or voltages (each engine's charging voltage, each battery bank, etc). That way you've got the peripherally scan-able needle gauges for regular running condition variables, but options for showing more on the infrequent occasions they might be needed.

So clue us in, why are you bothering with the tank fuel level?

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Hi

Your right "But why even bother?" What I am a "little" up set about is that BOTH Garmin & Lowrance don't state this in there "docs". I have already bought the unit, but no big deal. I can use it on my fresh water tank.

As to the "to set up a circuit" were the ohms value is always changing it would be over my head.
But the more think about it, I may just try hooking the two up. I called Lowrance and a maker of "tank sender units" (http://www.wemausa.com/tank_sensors/tan ... ensors.htm) check them out, there telling me no. The said that what ever the tank has it, the display will show half if it. My thought is if the OHMs per volt of the senor is high, than this should not be a problem. I guess I am thinking too hard!!!!!

Paul

Some where in my research I found a note that the Garmin fuel flow sensors have a pair of wires that can be used to report the sending unit ohm value to the N2K network.... I would have to look hard to find it again. But will see what I can come up with. However, the sending units should only be used as a guide. They are not accurate enough due to pitch and roll. loading of the boat etc... As soon as my fuel guage hits a 1/4 tank I get fuel. I really don't know how much is really left in the tank but I don't want to take a chance either. It works for me and everybody here will have a "point of no return" when the guage read a certain point---they get fuel ASAP.

_________________
Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Hi

I typed out of turn, Garmin states that you can hook it up to the analog gauge or sending unit. In other words, both at the same time. There unit MUST be different in terms of the load it put on the gauges!!

Forgive me, but this goes with out saying "They are not accurate enough due to pitch and roll. loading of the boat etc". But it is away to know what you have in your tank.

Paul

Hi

Based upon Marc's post, I called Lowrance, and a tech (Earl) now said the I CAN have both the analog and the digital gauge hooked up at the same time!!!! Boy, am I confused now!!!!

I guess I just have to try it!!!!

Paul

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Good to know

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy