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Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Horizon
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Author:  num7live [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Horizon
I have a 1999 190 Horizon that I leave docked in the water during the season. This problem started last year and has gotten worse. As you can see in the photos I have the boat in the slip bow facing out and the bow dock lines crossed. The lines cross right over the nav light and bow cleat. We often get wake in the slip and the dock lines will nock-off the nav light. We have found it dangling by the wires several times. I am also worried that the line is getting snagged under the cleat and this could damage the cleat or dock line.

Any suggestions for a solution? Is there a cover that can be installed over the cleat and nav light? Does anybody have experience installing a recessed bow cleat on a Horizon? A model of recessed cleat that would not require any modification of the fiberglass would be ideal (i.e. a one-for-one swap).

Image
Author:  rpengr [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
What if you just pass the lines through the center Bow Cleat?
Author:  TFD2001 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
I'm curious about the reason for crossing them to begin with? Beyond that, what he said:
rpengr wrote:
What if you just pass the lines through the center Bow Cleat?
Author:  NiagaraChillin [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
There are dozens of ways to tie up that would prevent that from happening, but I think the easiest way would be to either not cross them over the bow, or as rpengr said, run em throught the center cleat.
Author:  num7live [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
Don’t have a very good reason why they are crossed. That is how most of the other similar sized boats on the dock have theirs setup, but maybe they are just copying me :-) . The tide is a factor, It goes as high as 2ft above mean and as low as 2ft below mean (Chesapeake Bay). I believe that crossing the lines allows for a little more movement.

Running them under the bow cleat is an option, but I am worried about both lines pulling up on this cleat and it limits the allowable movement (for tide and wake).

I am by no means an expert on docking, but I have not had any problems (10+ seasons) until now with the damage to the nav light.

Thanks for the responses
Author:  JohnnyMarlin [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
Just curious........Does your dock float or is it stationary?
Author:  num7live [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
It is a standard stationary dock.
Author:  rpengr [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
Crossed lines are move forgiving to changing tide levels and a rocking boat. Going through the center cleat would reduce that advantage by about 1/2, but would still be better than not crossing at all, in my opinion.

Your idea of a guard to prevent the rope from catching the cleat or nav light is a good one. How about a piece of PVC pipe, slit down one side, and the slit pushed over the cleat?
Author:  taz42169 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
I have the same question as the others with regards to crossing your lines. I guess if you have to.

I leave mine slipped, I don't cross the bow lines, only my stern. I use the center cleat as a spring line to keep the stern off of the dock. So far, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with too much movement of my bow. Then again, you don't want it tied so tight you'll pull your cleats out in heavy winds.
Author:  pickledboater [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
Would threading the dock lines through a couple of swim noodles help. It wouldn't let the lines get caught under the cleat and it would pad the lines from the light. I use swim noodles for just about everything except swimming. Slice them lengthwise and put them on the windshield to pad the cover, etc.
Author:  Paul I. [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
taz42169 wrote:
I have the same question as the others with regards to crossing your lines. I guess if you have to.

I leave mine slipped, I don't cross the bow lines, only my stern. I use the center cleat as a spring line to keep the stern off of the dock. So far, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues with too much movement of my bow. Then again, you don't want it tied so tight you'll pull your cleats out in heavy winds.



Yep!

No need to cross the bow lines if you stern in. Just cross the stern lines, from your stern and midship cleats (finger side), one line on each cleat going towards the bow too, then to two dock cleats. One line on the bow to keep it in on the finger side. From the other midship (non-dock side) cleat to the dock, (spring line) to keep the boat from hitting the dock.
Author:  FourWinnPhil [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
I have a cheap and easy solution. Go to home depot, go to the plumbing section, look for 1/4 inch pipe insulation. Its made of resilient foam rubber. Feed the line through the foam rubber and attach zip ties at both ends. This will keep the rubber from sliding. It may cost you 5 bucks. Sounds hokey, but it works.
Author:  TFD2001 [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
Still not sure I understand the need to cross them, except for maybe the tidal influence? My boat is large in my slip, we're over length, and we have a 11'9" beam in a 13' wide slip. I use a few extra lines for springs, but she does not hit anything, even in the worst of storms, and is easy to get tied and untied. I'm attaching a crude drawing that is not to scale to illustrate my setup. The bow lines are pretty loose, and don't really do much other than keep it centered, as they have to run forward to find a cleat.. Also, our docks are floating, and covered and we don't have tides to worry about, just the Corp..

Image
Author:  Paul I. [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
TFD2001 wrote:
Still not sure I understand the need to cross them, except for maybe the tidal influence? My boat is large in my slip, we're over length, and we have a 11'9" beam in a 13' wide slip. I use a few extra lines for springs, but she does not hit anything, even in the worst of storms, and is easy to get tied and untied. I'm attaching a crude drawing that is not to scale to illustrate my setup. The bow lines are pretty loose, and don't really do much other than keep it centered, as they have to run forward to find a cleat.. Also, our docks are floating, and covered and we don't have tides to worry about, just the Corp..

Image



Just cross your stern lines and don't use the ones the go from your midship cleat to the middle of the dock. Why, because if you get hit with a wave, you won't pull your cleats out.
Author:  TFD2001 [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bow dock lines cross and damage navigational light, Hori
Paul I. wrote:
TFD2001 wrote:
Still not sure I understand the need to cross them, except for maybe the tidal influence? My boat is large in my slip, we're over length, and we have a 11'9" beam in a 13' wide slip. I use a few extra lines for springs, but she does not hit anything, even in the worst of storms, and is easy to get tied and untied. I'm attaching a crude drawing that is not to scale to illustrate my setup. The bow lines are pretty loose, and don't really do much other than keep it centered, as they have to run forward to find a cleat.. Also, our docks are floating, and covered and we don't have tides to worry about, just the Corp..

Image



Just cross your stern lines and don't use the ones the go from your midship cleat to the middle of the dock. Why, because if you get hit with a wave, you won't pull your cleats out.


Must be the difference in boating environments. My boat is slipped in a Marina that rarely has any wake in it, let alone a "wave".. The spring lines give side to side stability on my setup, along with keeping it from backing into the back of the slip. If I was in a bigger slip, I could probably get away with just 4 lines, at each corner, but my current slip, I'm shoe horned in there.. I've tried several setups, but without one of my springs lines hooked up, the boat is able to rotate and move to bang against the dock at some point or another.. Crossing on the back for me, would also put them in the way for getting on and off the boat while we are in the slip.. My previous boat, before I added the swim platform, was good to go with just four lines at the corners, and she stayed centered enough to not hit anything. When I added the swim platform, that moved my cleats far enough forward when in the slip, that I had to add a set of springs to it too.. Point is, what ever works for your particular setup is great, I just was trying to understand the need to cross lines at the bow for him? EDIT: Guess I should read better.. Yea, if I removed the midship line you mentioned, she'd be able to slide side to side enough to hit the dock. I've litterally got, at best, 6-8" on either side, those lines give me my lateral stability to keep the midship centered in the slip, the springs keep her from going back, and keeps it from pivoting on the mid-ship lines, and the rear lines keep her from going forward and also with the pivoting, and the bow lines pretty much only keep her from pivoting..
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