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Battery choices
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13647		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  RichA [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Battery choices
We decided to brave the cold (by our standards) and take the boat out last Friday. Pretty nice day I had to use the jump box to get the boat started at the ramp. Voltage was great and we kept the engine running for more than 2 hours. At lunch, I parked at a marina and used my battery charger, which said the battery was fully charged. After lunch (with nothing at all turned on) the boat wouldn't start. Slight crank, then clicking, typical for a low battery. Voltage was down to 11. OK, time for a new battery.

When I get the old battery out from it's hiding place way back under the swimdeck and do a little research I discover that it was a deep cycle battery, not a start or dual-purpose. It was made in 3/2012. So, someone put in the wrong battery and it lived a short life...

OK, so I want to get it right, but it isn't as straight forward as I would have thought. I can find no specification for the battery in the manual. The old one is a "Group 29" from Walmart. It appears that Group 27 batteries are typical, and should fit. Trying to shop is tough because the specs aren't easy to find in many cases. Grrr.

I think I want AGM to be shock resistant, since it isn't a super easy life in the back of a trailered boat, but that seems to almost double the cost.

So, anyone care to recommend a brand, type, or supplier?
Author:  Wylie_Tunes [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
Group-27 and 29 are typically close in size. What specs are you looking for? .I would go with a cranking or dual-purpose in which ever you find, depending on what a given manufacturer offers. Go with a marine battery and shock should not be an issue. Yes, AGM's are expensive. If you go with a quality battery and keep it maintained, I dont see an AGM paying off. Im partial to Interstate marine batteries.
Author:  LouC [ Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
A group 29 deep cycle could be used for starting, since the starting battery on a boat that size could well be a group 24. If it went dead in just a couple of years, check your charging system when you get the new battery. I use gp 27 dual purpose batteries made by Deka. They are widely available and priced well at certain marine retailers. I too have thought of an AGM but the price (250 or so) times 2 is a bit much. I'm upgrading the alternator this winter since the original is 26 years old and got sprayed with salt water the summer before this past when my raw water intake hose popped off the p/s cooler on the rear of the engine.
Author:  ric [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
Deep cycle, dual purpose, etc... is more of a marketing scheme than anything. A 70ah 12v battery is a 70ah 12v battery no matter what the sticker says on the side.
Author:  babbot1 [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
My Uncle and I go through a lot of batteries with the equipment we have. So here are my observations and findings from research.
There are only a few companies making batteries. Johnson controls is probably the most popular which includes interstate, optima, and walmart and autozone batteries(at the moment) among others. You can buy an expensive battery and find that the specs are identical to a battery from walmart for a lot less.

The deep cycle, dual purpose, and starting batteries are slightly different with different size plates internally. A deep cycle has the largest plates which is why they have the lowest cranking power with less surface area to create energy. The dual purpose have smaller plates and the cranking even smaller but more of them. The smaller plates can draw more current at once but suffer when drained too far. The deep cycle cannot create as much draw but can take a lower discharge without suffering as much damage. The dual purpose is in the middle which is why you will see mostly dual purpose on boats for cranking and running some electronics and pumps.

I would run out and get the biggest dual purpose battery you can fit in there from walmart or autozone and be done. I put 2 in my boat and have been satisfied at $100 each. I also bought a deep cycle from walmart for $100. They all have been just as good as the replacement interstates which are identical.

Optima's used to be AWESOME but they moved production to another location, I believe Mexico and are still great but not what they were 10-15 years ago. I have a cranking optima battery and use it in multiple machines and it take a lot of abuse but keeps on going.

Care is very important to a battery. They should not be discharged and left. They need to be maintained or else their life dramatically decreases. The AGM's do not need as much maintenance because of their technology but should still be monitored.
Author:  ric [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
I'm a big fan of Deka batteries. I'm lucky to have a warehouse nearby to buy direct.
Author:  Paul I. [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
Personly, I would go with AGM. I have stated this time after time before so forgive me.

I have 5 of them made by Oddessy, under the Sears name. Two of them are at least 6 years old and a third at 5 years old and still going strong. They come with a 4 year replacement warrenty. http://www.odysseybattery.com/
Author:  babbot1 [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
Its a tough call on the agm. I do like the optima's and oddessy have a good rep but for 2.5 times the price it has to last 2.5 times as long and I am not sure it can do that. I got 10 years out of the last agm with heavy abuse but I can get about 5 out of a wet cell. I am on the fence, thats why I have both for different applications.
The lithium's are coming a long way but are still crazy expensive. Hopefully they will keep coming down in price.
Author:  ric [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
babbot1 wrote:
Its a tough call on the agm. I do like the optima's and oddessy have a good rep but for 2.5 times the price it has to last 2.5 times as long and I am not sure it can do that. I got 10 years out of the last agm with heavy abuse but I can get about 5 out of a wet cell. I am on the fence, thats why I have both for different applications.
The lithium's are coming a long way but are still crazy expensive. Hopefully they will keep coming down in price.


Lithium requires special computer controlled chargers to control them from exploding. You won't be installing one in your boat anytime soon.
Author:  RichA [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
Wylie_Tunes wrote:
Group-27 and 29 are typically close in size. What specs are you looking for? .I would go with a cranking or dual-purpose in which ever you find, depending on what a given manufacturer offers. Go with a marine battery and shock should not be an issue. Yes, AGM's are expensive. If you go with a quality battery and keep it maintained, I dont see an AGM paying off. Im partial to Interstate marine batteries.


I wish I knew what specs to go for. It would sure make it easier! But I have found nothing in the Four Winns or Volvo manual and don't currently have a trustworthy mechanic.

Y'all have pretty much confirmed that a Group 27 or 29 dual-purpose ordinary battery is likely my best bet. The fancier ones are more than twice the price without more than twice the warranty, and I'm not heading offshore or otherwise very far from help if I need it.

Because I shudder at the thought of going to Walmart this time of year, I'm leaning toward this one from Autozone:
http://www.autozone.com/miscellaneous-non-automotive-products/marine-battery/duralast-marine-battery-12-months-free-replacement/107676_0_0/ Group 27 marine battery with 800 CCA.
Author:  babbot1 [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
ric wrote:
Lithium requires special computer controlled chargers to control them from exploding. You won't be installing one in your boat anytime soon.


not true according to this manufacturer.
"The Smart Battery SB80 is perfect for boats, trolling motors, cars and almost any application that would use a 12V 80AH lead acid, agm or gel battery. "
only 28lbs but for $1049 I ain't buying one anytime soon.
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-80ah-lithium-ion-battery/
Author:  Paul I. [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
babbot1 wrote:
Its a tough call on the agm. I do like the optima's and Odyssey have a good rep but for 2.5 times the price it has to last 2.5 times as long and I am not sure it can do that. I got 10 years out of the last agm with heavy abuse but I can get about 5 out of a wet cell. I am on the fence, thats why I have both for different applications.
The lithium's are coming a long way but are still crazy expensive. Hopefully they will keep coming down in price.


Go to the Sears web site and price them out. I bought the Auto version, same battery, better price & warranty.
Author:  acguy [ Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
ric wrote:
I'm a big fan of Deka batteries. I'm lucky to have a warehouse nearby to buy direct.



Deka batteries are made by east penn. I found that car quest marine batteries are actually made by east penn and bought group 31 batteries for $100.
With that said I am a mechanic at Johnson Controls and now get an employee discount so in time I will replace all my batteries with optima batteries because of the zero maintenance required on them.
Author:  Paul I. [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
babbot1 wrote:
ric wrote:
Lithium requires special computer controlled chargers to control them from exploding. You won't be installing one in your boat anytime soon.


not true according to this manufacturer.
"The Smart Battery SB80 is perfect for boats, trolling motors, cars and almost any application that would use a 12V 80AH lead acid, agm or gel battery. "
only 28lbs but for $1049 I ain't buying one anytime soon.
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-80ah-lithium-ion-battery/


It comes with "Fully automatic built in battery protection system" At 1049.00, I will stay with my AGM. My 5 AGMs bearly cost me that much.
Author:  RichA [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battery choices
Paul I. wrote:
babbot1 wrote:
ric wrote:
Lithium requires special computer controlled chargers to control them from exploding. You won't be installing one in your boat anytime soon.


not true according to this manufacturer.
"The Smart Battery SB80 is perfect for boats, trolling motors, cars and almost any application that would use a 12V 80AH lead acid, agm or gel battery. "
only 28lbs but for $1049 I ain't buying one anytime soon.
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-80ah-lithium-ion-battery/


It comes with "Fully automatic built in battery protection system" At 1049.00, I will stay with my AGM. My 5 AGMs bearly cost me that much.


That looks very cool, and it's probably worth the price for some applications, but likely not most boats.

If their claims are correct, you might save some money by only needing 1/2 the battery for a house system, since deep cycle lead batteries aren't supposed to be drawn down more than 50%, and they claim it's OK to take theirs to 100%. Instead of 4 $250 AGM batteries you'd need 2 of these $1,000 LiFe units, so then they'd only need to last 3 times as long to be worth it! :lol:
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