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Refrigerator rewire
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=15260		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Flyer51 [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Refrigerator rewire
One of the projects I had planned over the winter was to replace the wire to the refrigerator. I pulled the refrigerator over the weekend and I already have a heavier gauge wire to replace the one shown here which appears to be a 16 gauge. My thought was to splice right into the red wire prior to the connector. I have not measured the voltage at the connector but my fridge does stop cooling while we're on the hook and I still have pretty good voltage in the house battery. Do I also need to replace the yellow wire which I assume is going back to the grounding bar? I'm hoping it's not too difficult to fish a new wire along the path of the old one.

Image
Author:  chris268 [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
Replace both

I am an electrician, the formula we use is (2kil)/volts dropped= Circular mills

K= constant= 10.4
I= current in amps
L= length

The 2 is to double the length (using the red and yellow)

Volts dropped is typically 3% on a branch circuit

Hope this helps
Author:  Surface Interval [ Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
On fiberglass boats, the ground wire is just as important as the power wire. For best results change both.
Author:  TFD2001 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
Yep, change both, that's what I did, and no issues since..
Author:  Flyer51 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
TFD2001 wrote:
Yep, change both, that's what I did, and no issues since..


I almost called you Jason when I had it out. Did you splice into those existing wires? I will secure the red wire to the panel :D
Author:  chris268 [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
I am guessing the red and yellow wires go back to the main DC panel. Where is that located on your boat? Approx how long is the wire? Can't believe that they used 16 gauge....
Author:  Flyer51 [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
The DC fuse panel is right below the helm just above the deck. The undesized wire to the fridge is a known problem on the Vistas and several people have replaced theirs. Since we run our generator frequently we've been able to get by. That and I've been lazy and not got to this issue yet.
Author:  chris268 [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
I have read about it, does it cut through he engine compartment or does it go through the aft cabin.... I thought I read the fridge used 200 watts, at 12 volts that is almost 16 amps... that should of been minimum 12 awg regardless.... disappointing.... is it an issue with the 268's also? I will use a generator at night also, just wondering if I will have the same :(
Author:  Flyer51 [ Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
chris268 wrote:
I have read about it, does it cut through he engine compartment or does it go through the aft cabin.... I thought I read the fridge used 200 watts, at 12 volts that is almost 16 amps... that should of been minimum 12 awg regardless.... disappointing.... is it an issue with the 268's also? I will use a generator at night also, just wondering if I will have the same :(


Not sure of the route of the wire yet but I don't think it goes through the engine compartment.

I never run our generator at night. Too much noise and too dangerous. The admiral does not tolerate heat well and on the few nights it's too warm overnight were back in the marina on shore power and use the AC. We do have a really handy 12v fan that will run all night long. I put that in the porthole that is just above the bed and we can make it on some pretty warm nights.
Author:  Surface Interval [ Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
I believe the DC power for the fridge comes from the panel at the helm and crosses under the forward edge of the aft cabin floor. According the "boat-project.com" site below there are two wiring crossover tubes under the forward edge of the aft cabin floor in the 268. I'm not sure about the 278, but would guess it is similar. On the 268 you may need to remove the top step to access the port side of these tubes.

http://www.boat-project.com/electro/proj-7a.htm

This routing may also be a consideration when routing wiring for other accessories or heavier wiring for audio system upgrades.

We have run a Honda generator over night, but don't prefer to. That was one reason for installing an inverter. Keep in mind that operating on battery power overnight means you may need an additional battery in the house bank. You will need the anchor light on, the refridgerator will need to run, you probably will need a fan or two, ... The boat interior, and especially the aft cabin, gets a little stuffy in warm weather without some air movement or air conditioning.
Author:  TFD2001 [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
Flyer51 wrote:
TFD2001 wrote:
Yep, change both, that's what I did, and no issues since..


I almost called you Jason when I had it out. Did you splice into those existing wires? I will secure the red wire to the panel :D


No, I rewired it all the way. Yea, lost the convience of just "unplugging" it if I had to pull it out again, but I didn't want to deal with finding out later, I should have wired it all the way, and then have to pull it out again. I had already done that enough. :P
Author:  TheDanceII [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
I cut the old connector out and put but connectors on the new wire. My connector had larger wire going from the connector to the power adapter.
The fridge uses slightly less than 4 amps on 12 volts. That is what the original inverter is rated at.
The wiring in theory should have been able to handle 4 amps.
The initial surge is the problem. The turn on surge drops the voltage down below the minimum input voltage and the inverter shuts down.
I changed to 10 gauge wire and ran to the main ships power breaker at the back of the boat. Everything was on that side and made life a lot easier to run the wires.
Author:  chris268 [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
TheDanceII wrote:
I cut the old connector out and put but connectors on the new wire. My connector had larger wire going from the connector to the power adapter.
The fridge uses slightly less than 4 amps on 12 volts. That is what the original inverter is rated at.
The wiring in theory should have been able to handle 4 amps.
The initial surge is the problem. The turn on surge drops the voltage down below the minimum input voltage and the inverter shuts down.
I changed to 10 gauge wire and ran to the main ships power breaker at the back of the boat. Everything was on that side and made life a lot easier to run the wires.


If it only draws 4 amps, I am surprised the #16 didn't work that short of a distance,

doing the math (2x10.4x4x20') then divided by .36 = 4622 cm

14 awg is 4107....
12 awg is 6530.....

so yes, 16 would work if the length was about 11'..... I think 20' is a little more reasonable,could be 15' which would be #14...

i would;d say #10 is safe, #12 is probably enough...

interesting stuff here.... i wonder what the exact amp draw is, that would effect it a little. i use 10.4 as the K (constant) some use 11....

sorry, this is the electrician in me :)

btw, thanks for the site Gary, great info there!
Author:  TheDanceII [ Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
When I had to replace my inverter I did a lot of measuring. The factory inverter spec was 4 amps at 12 volts. The initial surge was over 3 amps (don't remember exact number) and then would settle to about 2.5 amps running. Not sure the original total length from the starboard fuse panel to the port fridge and I never did worry with figuring out the routing. My guess is it is under the floor so would be 15' or so anyway. I was thinking my original wire was about 14 gauge but again not 100% sure.

When I first got the boat, the compressor would try to cut on and would run for about 1 to 2 seconds and then shut off. Then about 30 seconds later it would tray again. I measured the voltage when it tried to start and the voltage would drop to below 11 volts if I remember right. That was too low and it would shut down the inverter either due to low voltage or more than 4 amps at that voltage level. I never tried to measure the amps draw on the original wiring to verify if the shutoff was due to voltage low, current high, or both.

Bottom line, 10 gauge wire solved the problem until later when the inverter went out. Then replaced the inverter with the larger inerter they sell now.
No more problems so far.
Author:  Graham R [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Refrigerator rewire
On the 278 it is very easy to run cables directly from the battery switch to the cabin down the port side of the boat, rather than via the fuse box on the starboard side.
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