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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:56 pm 
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Tadpole

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:24 pm
Posts: 2
Hello all,

I have a 1993 210 Horizon that is begining to give me alot of trouble. Last season I had my altenator replaced with a larger one. Since then I have been going thru belts every hour of engine time. I am having the same mechanics replace them so I am not over tightening them. All of the pullies are clean and have no rust or rough patches.
The mechanic told me i could be over working the altenator so I removed my after market apm and subwoofer. Since then the problem is just getting worst.

Now after running the boat for about an hour I shut it down and drop the anchor. After swimming for hour with no radio or any other electrical device on, I go to start it and nothing...nothing at all. Not a click, no blower, no horn nothing. I pull out my tester and checked my batteries. Both batteries are good.I check all of my connecions thinking I am having a bad ground. After checking all of my connections removing and re attaching them still nothing. After scratching my head and trying to call someone to tow us back I try it one last time. I flick on the blower and there is power, sweet music to my ears. The boat starts right up and I get it back to the dock. This is the third time in the past 2 years this has happened to me. The other times I thought I drained the battery but I now know that was not the case.

Does anyone out there have any idea what it could be? I first thought it was a ground but it appears to work after coolong down. I really have no idea. Maybe my ignition switch is going bad? Any ideas would be a great help.

Thank you in advance for any of your idead.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:38 pm 
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230 Mike
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First, one thing to keep in mind is that your "tester" (assuming it's just one of those little 12V pocket testers) only checks voltage; it has no way of knowing whether your batteries can supply enough current to turn a starter motor or whatever. It's entirely possible for a battery to produce plenty of voltage to light up a tester but not produce nearly enough current to run anything significant. Obviously that isn't the problem here, but it's something to be aware of.

Sounds like an intermittent connection to me. Do you have a battery switch of any sort? Was the reason for installing the larger alternator just the amp etc.?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:35 am 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
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Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
Belts don't generally fail because you 'overwork' the alternator. It's usually the alternator that fails, and usually that's just the electronics in it. For a belt to fail something has to either be grossly out of alignment or seized. Alignment issues often manifest themselves by excessive squealing noises. The belt is being forced out of a straight path and that causes the sides of it to rub, producing the noise.

A seized pulley basically fries the inside of the belt. This usually makes a hell of a lot of noise and a lot of burned rubber smell and usually some smoke. It's usually easy to tell what's seized up if you check it immediately after the belt failure. Basically you manually turn all the pulley wheels and see which one isn't turning. Water and steering pumps, alternator, idler pulley (the thing that keeps the belt tensioned) and the crankshaft itself. Obviously you can't hand-turn the crankshaft, just crank the starter motor to see that turn. But everything else should very easily turn by hand. Just be sure to use something to protect your hand from any heat present.

It is NOT a normal situation to have belts constantly failing. It's a sign of a BAD mechanic to let that happen more than once without ACCURATELY nailing down the cause. They're just fleecing you by doing the job over and over. Find another mechanic or start learning how to do it yourself.

As to the electrical situation, it's not enough to have just a wire connecting things. That wire has to be in good enough shape (and properly sized) to handle the load put through it. It's possible for corrosion to allow voltage to travel, but greatly reduce the amount of current that can get through. As in, you can measure 12v everywhere but as soon as you try to draw any serious amount of power the corroded wire or connections kills it. The first step is to pull off the battery terminal connections and clean them THOROUGHLY. Then do the same to the terminals on the starter AND on the main battery switch. Closely examine the ends of the wires. If you see any corrosion in them then you're going to have to replace them. It's possible for corrosion to exist inside the bundle of wires inside a cable. You usually see this at the ends or somewhere along the wire where the insulation has gotten cracked or otherwise opened.

I've had situations where an internally corroded wire would work fine when things were cool. But when the wire heated up (due to nearby engine heat and load pulled through it) the circuit would crap out. Once it cooled things worked OK again. I could check voltage at either end and it was fine when there wasn't anything pulling a load. The only way I discovered which one was bad was by using a long enough, and heavy enough gauge, wire as a temporary replacement. I had to use it on three different segments until I found the culprit. It turned out to be a GROUND wire going from the engine back to the battery. Not a positive wire. Power to the engine went from the battery to the breaker panel and then to the engine. But the ground when back to the battery went through a buss bar in the engine compartment. It was one of those lines that was corroded internally and would not properly return the load when things heated up.

Remember, power has to return back to the battery via a ground. It needs to be just a large as the positive side for the circuit.

The discussion on how to properly size wiring for additional accessories is a long one. There's a lot to it. The size of the wire to AND from the equipment is crucial. Use too small a gauge wire and you'll overheat it and potentially damage the equipment. Then the batteries have to contain enough power to drive the equipment. You can't realistically expect to crank up a powerful amp using just the factory included battery and wiring setup. Then the alternator has to be able to effectively recharge the batteries. That and if you expect to run the engine in order to power the amp that also requires the larger alternator.

Plenty of people end up setting fire to their cars/boats due to improperly designed/installed add-on equipment. It's relatively simple to do the job right, but often requires more planning and expense than people think is 'necessary'.

I vote for bad/corroded wiring. I'm guessing some portion of the wires themselves are bad. It's sometimes easier to replace whole sections of wiring rather than spending a lot of time trying to fix what's in there.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:27 pm 
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I will go along with above on the belt and the mechanic........

I would first check your ignition switch on the short. Find out where it is suppose to have power and what termnals it goes out when turned on. If it has no power, then go back to above post.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:14 pm 
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Tadpole

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:24 pm
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THANK ALL OF YOU for your thoughts. I am looking for a new mechanic. As far as my belts going bad I never heard any squeeling. Looking at the belts there would be a one inch chunk rubbed almost allthe way down and snapped a few inches after that.

And the problem with power loss still has me confused. I am going to have someone check that out as I am not not verry mechanically inclined and would have no idea where to begin. I have a spare ignition switch which I am going to install just because.

I truely appriciate all of your input. You have given me alot to think about!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:23 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
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Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
It'd be hard for any of the non-powered pulleys to wear down just one particular area. It's the larger diameter crankshaft that does all the powering. When something seizes the belt usually looks like it's been worn down fairly evenly along the whole thing. Just one section missing seems odd, but then I'm no expert on belts.

When you own a boat you either become mechanically inclined or you go broke. Many a boat gets sold because the owner couldn't keep ahead of the maintenance a boat requires, and got taken to the cleaners by mechanics.

There's a lot of stuff you can do yourself, quickly, cheaply and relatively easily. Replacing a belt takes literally no more than 10 minutes, tops, and that includes digging out the tools and cleaning up afterward. Same thing with plugs, filters, impellers and the like. But any of those jobs is usually $150 minimum (each), along with the time it takes to get it to the shop and the boating time lost while you wait in line for the work to be done. Versus being able to do it yourself with $10 to $50 worth of parts and a little bit of your time.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:54 pm 
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I had this problem in my truck. Put on a brand new belt spun it and watched it fray apart. I found a piece of old belt still left on one of the pulleys scraped it off and no more problem. Make sure you check them (pulleys) before you spend more money on a new belt.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:38 am 
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Minnow

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:10 am
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I have been having the same sort of electrial issue mentioned at the start of this post. I did have a new ignition switch installed but that does not seem to have solved the problem. The big issue is this; before and after the new switch was put it I could turn the key and the oil, temp etc lights would come on and as they should but the motor woudl not turn over. If I kept trying it would eventually catch and the motor would start. The other day however, I turned the key and absolutely nothing came on. I conneted a 12v pump to the battery to test it and that worked fine. I am at a loss as to what to check next. I did see mention of a battery switch. I have a 2000 Horizon 170, would this model have such a thing? Any help would be greatlt appreciated, thanks.


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