www.iFourWinns.com

Hi, 11 hours on new oil change. Should I change it this fall or good for next year.

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2000 Fourwinns Horizon 210
5.0 Volvo
Hubbard Lake MI.

Here comes the great debate..... How long has the oil been in the engine? Days/months/yrs?

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2001 328 Vista "Nauta Dream 2"
AB Inflatable 10AL "Little Dreamer"
2000 248 Vista
1997 225 Sundowner


Mike

If you changed it like in the summer it's probably fine, if that oil has been in it since last fall for sure I'd change it. Not so much the hrs per se but the moisture that condenses inside the engine that will sit there over the winter causing possible corrosion. I have changed my oil every Oct on this old engine and under the valve covers its clean like a brand new engine. No sludge anywhere.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Just changed it this May. And only put 11 hrs on it this year.

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2000 Fourwinns Horizon 210
5.0 Volvo
Hubbard Lake MI.

Change it.
I change mine every fall regardless of hours. I'd rather have fresh/clean oil sitting in there all winter than dirty.

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2004 248 Vista "Amante"
MC 5.0MPI/B3

My thoughts are that fuel dilution is more serious than the 11 hours. I don't know how those 11 hours got on it, putting around, wide open laps of the lake, lots of stops and starts pulling skiiers. The starting and stopping is worse case IMO due to the overfueling it takes to achieve a reliable start. It would be akin to a tractor you get out a couple times a winter to plow the driveway in 10 minutes. Likely it never warms up enough (talking oil temp and not water temp) to burn off all the fuel that makes its way into the crankcase.

If you look at the Volvo Penta oil instructions its for "thicker" oils which I personally believe is to combat the fuel dilution issue. Boat engines don't need to run in a narrow band of air/fuel ratio to achieve emissions performance with a catalytic converter like a car or truck engine. Hence they are calibrated to run a little on the rich side of chemically correct combustion. This means lots of power (max power requires slightly rich mixture) and a nice accel without worry about lean stumbles or sags (assuming all else is in good condition).

I'm of the school of thought that oil is cheap and engines are expensive, although oil isn't so cheap any more. I would personally change it, but I don't think its the end of the world if you don't. A better plan might be some hot wide open throttle laps around the lake to bring the oil up to temp and get rid of some of the extra stuff in the crankcase.

A brilliant response, Wrench!

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2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

+1

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2004 Four Winns 328 Vista
1997 Larson Cabrio 290 - sold
1988 Rinker Fiesta Vee 248 - sold

It's hard to argue that after 11 hours and 4 months that the lubricating properties or contamination of the oil requires that it be changed. I too often face a similar situation where I've put less than 15 hrs on an engine in a season, and I'm never quite sure when my season is over, as we frequently get some 90F days in October here in northern California.

My household has 2 dirt bikes, 8 cars and a boat. Four of the cars are used infrequently (as are the boat and dirt bikes), and are all on battery tenders. It seemed that my infrequently-used vehicles were getting oil changes more often than necessary, as what came out of the crankcase was almost as clean (eye-balling) as what I was putting in. But I believed the theories about acidification and removal of contaminants on a periodic basis, so I changed everything that was infrequently used annually, with synthetic oil, thinking this was cheap insurance.

About 8 months ago I heard about and purchased an oil tester from www.lubricheck.com. It's a small device into which you put a couple of drops from the end of the dipstick, and it performed some kind of analysis - I suspect pH, and perhaps a refraction for particulates. I have 2 cars with "oil life monitors"; both of which I believe are algorithms based on time, load, temp, etc, not an actual analysis of the oil. Much to my surprise, there was a pretty good correlation between the oil life monitors on my GM car from 2001, my Lexus from 2012, and the lubricheck device. Enough that I now use this device to dictate when the oil should be changed on the dirt bikes, classic cars and the boat. I think this device has probably paid for itself in deferring unnecessary oil changes.

Of course, for the cars that are used regularly, I follow the maintenance schedule, or the oil life monitor, but having an independent analysis with this device allowed me to extend the 3-months or 3,000 mile traditional auto oil change interval to > 6 months on my older, but daily-driven cars, and not fear for the well-being of the internals of my classic cars, boat and dirt bikes.

I just checked their website, and although the price has increased from when I bought mine (they want $50 today, where I swear I paid $40 for it back in January), I have had a positive experience. With synthetic oil running >$5-6/qt, it will pay for itself in just a couple of deferred oil changes (or in my case, one, as the crankcase in my 1955 Jaguar holds 12.5 quarts!), and it gives me peace-of-mind for all those engines that are infrequently used.

That device may be giving you bogus results, as your sample is likely from the bottom of your sump (fuel sits atop of oil) and NMMA Approved marine oils contain high additive packs (zinc, phosporous and detergents).
Most full synthetic oils (even the cheaper ones) are now a Group 3, so this testing device may only be accurate for low tech' oils...
I don't believe that Lubricheck tests for viscosity either, which is a critical component in a marine engine's longevity.

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2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

Regarding the tester, I think it probably is checking some micro-conductivity to assess the acidity...very very mild acidity. Motor manufacturers know about the "TAN" which stands for Total Acid Number which basically correlates to the amount of combustion contaminants in the crankcase to an integer for comparison, like a 1 to 10 scale more or less (although its not exactly like that its pegged to an absolute value rather than the bounds of a range). The additive packages in oil are there to maintain lubricity even after the acid number starts creeping up as there is no route out of the increasing acidity other than changing the oil...combustion events continue happening and are slowly additive.

The fuel contamination issue is also one of decreasing lubricity but the additive package doesn't fix it. Getting the oil warmed up to around 180F and then having some PCV airflow is how the fuel and water vapor gets out of the crankcase. In a car or truck, taking a highway drive on the order of a couple of hours is the best approach. The polar opposite is the "granny cycle" where a person gets in the car, drives it a mile to the store, parks it, shops for groceries, then a mile home. Repeat every couple of days and you can see how the oil can have increasing amounts of fuel and water vapor. Which is why I ask above, how did the 11 hours got on the boat...did it get warmed up fairly well or was there a lot of starting and stopping?

Your issue is not a slam dunk either way, its more of a personal preference if you ask me. I don't think the oil gets "permanently damaged" by having it sit around with some small fuel dilution. You can cook it off later and it will be very close to what it was before. Older engine oils had a tendency to sludge, but we've come a long way...when I was a younger guy SAE-SE oils (its an increasing class of service) were coming to the market. Now basically SAE-SN oils are the only thing on the market (each letter is an increasing standard of oil performance to which oil manufacturers can compare their product).

Synthetics are good, I use them for two applications, air cooled engines, where the oil is the only liquid coolant, and in my daily driver, where I put on a ton of miles and so I'd be changing dino oils all the time at my personal 4k mile interval. With the synthetic I buy the Mobil Advanced and run for 10k miles, topping off the level and changing the oil filter only at the 5k interval.

Oil is a fun subject with a lot of personal opinions. There you have some of mine.

I agree! Change it before you put it to bed for the winter. Just start the engine for 2 or 3 mins to push the old oil out of the bearings. This will give it a coat of new oil!

Running your engine will also hold the majority of these contaminants in the oil's suspension, which will allow them to be pumped out.
Black coloured oil is simply the oil suspending contaminants.
Contrary to people's belief, an oil that goes black quickly is actually doing it's job!

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2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

An IC engine oil does hold contaminants in suspension to circulate them to the filter where it can be removed.

This is in opposition to something like an industrial gearbox where the lubes don't hold onto particles. Instead they are allowed to drop by gravity to a "quiet area" in the flow paths where it simply isn't an issue any more since it's out of play.

Its probably easier to just change the oil while you are doing other season-end chores. Rather than get to the center of next summer's prime season and realize its now the time as there will be other deadlines and other things competing for time.