www.iFourWinns.com

Hi everyone,

New to this forum, and was hoping someone here with more engine knowledge than I have could help me understand a question on the engine options for a 2017 H260 (finally going for it!).

Four Winns recommends the VP V8-350C engine in the H260 (per fast facts), but it seems to be the exact same engine as the VP V8-300C, except that the additional 50 horsepower costs you an added approx. $5,000. All of the engine specs on the Volvo Penta website for the two are identical (both 5.3L, etc.). The only thing I have been able to find is from Boattest.com, which reviewed the new VP engine and noted "The 300-hp model is actually a 350-hp platform that has been electronically re-tuned to govern its output."

So my question is, am I really contemplating paying around $5,000 more just for a tweak of software? And is there any other way to get out the full 350HP from the 300HP without that expense?

Relatedly, I would be interested to hear any view on whether the 300HP is sufficient for the H260, or if the extra 50 HP is noticeable.

Thanks in advance!

That's a very interesting question. I have a few comments:

Consider resale value. Four Winns owners put a high premium on horsepower. When I bought my boat at 12 years old, the books values were about $3k higher for a higher horsepower option. It stands to reason that a 5 year old used boat would have an even greater premium value for the higher horsepower.

I'm with you...it would sure be nice to buy the 300HP and "convert" it to 350HP by having the software changed / tuned. I'm not sure what that would cost. If you cannot find anyone who has done it online, then it may not be as easy as you would think.

Consider warranty. Changing the software/tuning would most likely void the warranty, so would you wait until the warranty is over? or just screw the warranty?

Fuel usage is not really a factor. Both engines will use the same amount of fuel at the same speed. So cruising at 30mph will use the same fuel with either engine. However, if the extra HP leads you to cruise at higher speeds, then you will use more fuel accordingly. At wide open throttle (WOT), the 350 will use about 17% more fuel per hour, but nobody cruises at WOT.

Is 300HP adequate? Yes, for most purposes. You'll wish you had more horsepower when pulling up a tube or skier when you have 7+ passengers on board. You'll wish you had more horsepower if you are racing your buddy and he beats you by 2 mph. You will never wish you had less horsepower.

I would work out your best deal with the options you want and the 300HP. Then use what you know to try to get the best deal on the 350HP. If you get the difference down to $3000 or less, I would go for it. If it's still $5000... I don't know.

By the way, my H240 has the 250HP carbureted engine, and performs quite well. However, my H240 (1996-1999 style) is 4000 lbs, where your 2017 H260 is 4900 lbs. Both are rated for 13 passengers (but I don't know where I would fit that many people).

Ray

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

That is a tough question to answer. For some the 300 hp will be plenty but other will say 350 hp is minimum required. Many factors for each. I have a 23' boat 4200# with 300 hp & it is a great combination & we are very happy. Do you own a boat now & are you happy with the performance? One thing that could be very benfical would be to test drive the boats & see for your self. Much cheaper to find out before you own it.

Thank you both for the insight and advice. Even if I could figure out how to have someone change the tuning to get the extra 50 HP out of the engine (and am unsure how), the warranty would be a real concern. I had not considered that point.

I know that I will never regret having the extra 50 HP, but am just instinctively annoyed that FW/VP can upcharge nearly $5,000 for a software change on an engine. Why even have the lower HP tuning option on the engine? I feel like it is really gouging buyers of both the 300HP and 350HP. I just checked, and it looks like MerCruiser does the exact same thing with their 6.2L V-8.

I am thinking I will just have to suck up my pride and drop the extra $$. Given the price of the boat, I don't ever want to look back and say I would have been happier if I just spent a few % more. The odd thing is that I wouldn't be annoyed to spend the extra $$ if was an actual mechanical improvement; its just the fact that it is a tuning adjustment that irks me.

I think that's the right decision. You can help justify it in your mind by knowing you will get about 2/3 of the extra $$ back at resale time... so it might really cost you less than $2k over your ownership cycle of this boat.

Ray

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

H260 with 300HP? No way, spring for the 350 HP. I wish I had the 8.1 big block with 380 HP instead of the 5.7 with 320 HP

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2011 SL242 5.7 VP GXi - 320 HP Dual Prop

I don't think you will feel much of a difference between the 300 and 350 except for top end and your wallet.

It is a rip-off for that much of a price difference for essentially a software change -- but that is not uncommon in marine engines, whether it is I/O's or outboards, there are often engines that differ only in HP and $$. The 300 to 350 upgrade is about 4K dealer cost, 5K SNAP pricing and 6K msrp.

The 300 and 350 Volvo's have the same gear ratio and same prop set. The 260's I've sold have had 300's and the customers have been happy. The VVT and direct injection make even the 300 extremely responsive. If you are cruising in the 20's and hit the gas -- everyone better be sitting down or hanging on. I literally ended up on the engine hatch a couple of years ago on the first ride my boss and I took in a H-260 with a 300dp. Having said that - we do have a 350 with the thru-hull exhaust in stock now. That is a blast to drive but I think the only real difference is a 50 or so top end instead of mid 40's.

I know nothing about possible options to retune or change the software -- but, as was mentioned above, this will undoubtedly void your warranty and the 5 year engine warranty from Volvo is a good selling point that I would not want to mess with.

Lastly, if you are serious I'd suggest you contact your local dealer asap. FW is running the rebate program thru March 31 ($2500 for a H-260) but we just rushed to put an order into the system because (as I understand it) there was an unadvertised enhancement to the rebate program that gave even more $$ off. I don't know any more or if this is still available but it would be worth asking about.

Here's my $.02, keep the change.

As a general rule, I don't put much value on warranties (other than a tool to sell stuff) beyond a complete failure in the first few hours of operation as it is too easy for the manufacturer to blame you and avoid paying a claim - then it is your word against both the manufacturer and the shop that did the maintenance unless there are lots of people having the same issue and you find a good attorney. I know a lot of people have good experiences with warranties and they would argue the point (and I concede they are not all bad), but if I truly thought I needed to rely on a 5-year warranty then I wouldn't buy the product in the first place. However, I generally maintain my stuff fairly well. On the flip side of that notion, nobody offers a warranty unless they make money on it so if VP is offering a 5-year warranty there is likely a good chance you will get at least 5 years out of it relatively trouble-free with recommended maintenance by someone mechanically-inclined.

With those thoughts in mind, I would ignore the warranty, save the $5k and buy the 300 HP version. Use it for a season or two just to make sure the engine/drive doesn't grenade due to an initial quality problem. While I was enjoying the 300 HP (who knows, I might even decide I like 300 HP just fine) I would keep an eye out for a salvage ECM for the 350 HP version, or make some connections with shops that do ECM tuning and have them contact me when they have access to a VP 350HP tune map they can copy into my ECM. I wouldn't want to be a guinea pig, but if I could find a factory map it would be more or less plug-and-play. You might even be able to purchase a new ECM for the 350HP version and make a copy or just sell the ECM for your 300 to recover some of the cost. Assuming that happens within the first couple of years, I saved myself $5k that could be used to pay for the updated ECM and have cash left in the bank (plus the interest on it if financing) to fix a nearly $5k mechanical problem should it arise. That sounds like a much better gamble on the 350 HP to me than essentially paying the $5k for a 5-year warranty.

EDIT: Just checked some Volvo Penta parts sites and it looks like you can get an ECM for the V8-XXX series engines for around $1,500. The part numbers vary with the engine submodel but the prices are about the same. Interestingly, the ECM for the V9-350-C models is "Out of production." Not sure why a part they are putting in new boats would be "out of production" but perhaps they just aren't selling them as spare parts yet. If you can find the ECM, you might be able to just swap it or you may need to find someone to program an ID number from your 300 ECM so that the engine will run with the new 350 ECM. Just something you may want to explore.

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2003 FW 170 Freedom 4.3 GL/SX

This ^^^^^ I spoke with a Volvo rep last night and the ECM is the only difference. This is the same price that he thought it should cost for a 350hp ECM.

Boats always weigh more than what the specs tell you. So the most power you can get is the way to go but I agree having to pay $5000 for that is not reasonable. For a boat you would keep a long time consider closed cooling. The engine will last longer, it will not corrode internally (as any cast iron engine exposed to water, even fresh water will) and will not develop cooling problems due to corrosion or clogged up coolant passages internally. I have never understood the false economy of raw water cooling on inboards, because these engines were designed for a pressurized cooling system with antifreeze & corrosion inhibitors. And yes that corrosion happens even in fresh water depending on mineral content. Even if Volvo offers just a half system, that will help a lot. Easier and quicker to winterize and a longer lasting engine + better resale. Unless you have taken a raw water cooled engine apart you can't fully see the value of closed cooling.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

I have the 2016 H260 with the 300 HP V/P. It was the demo from the boat show, so I got great deal on it. I test drove it first, and found it was just fine. (i was coming from a 2007 tahoe Q7i, with 220 hp carb engine, so anything might have felt better) We boat the potomac river In DC, and we've had it loaded up with kids and adults. never felt like I was lacking power. We have the electronic arch and pull boards/tubes pretty regularly. If i had an extra 5K to drop, I d say go for the arch, gives the boat a great look and is very useful. Holds speakers, boards, and hold the bimini much better than the other option of having support poles attached to the sides.

You want the HP. My 260 had 385 HP and we loved it. Cruise all day efficiently if wanted or balls out when we needed it. Full load of people it was nice to have the HP available.

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2001 Horizon 260 - 7.4 Volvo GSI DP