www.iFourWinns.com

Hi Guys,
I just found this forum. I have owned my 1996 190 Horizon with 5ltr fuel injected V-8 and Volvo Penta SX drive since...well, 1996. It has been a great boat.

It has a 14 1/2" X 19 aluminum propeller. It gets up to speed quickly; it'll get on plane in 3 seconds. It also will over rev if I let it (4800rpm.) I also have a 14 1/2" X 21 aluminum propeller. It is too tall and will only get up to 4400rpm. It is nice though as I can leave the throttle in the idle position and it will cruise along at around 5mph; great for exploring coves without any noise...like a sailboat.

I am thinking to go to a 4 blade propeller. My current use is to tow kids in the inner tube at around 18mph. This is slow and my boat has difficulty getting, or staying on plane. So, does anybody have a recommendation for an aluminum 4 blade propeller? (I like aluminum as they are cheaper than SS and won't tear up the gearcase when I have a propstrike.) What diameter? Pitch? Manufacturer/model?

Thanks! R, Steve in LA

That's a tough one with the data you have...

As far as SS tearing up your gear-case, that's BS IMO because there is a plastic hub (flo torq?) that will disintegrate when you hit something. I've nailed a stump at 40 mph, took a chunk out of the drive, and destroyed the insert, but little damage to the prop, and no damage to the drive. SS also holds up much better when I go through gravel. My alum props wouldn't last a full season on my last boat. When I changed it to SS, never had any issues.

Before toying with props, I would take care of the motor... new plugs, wires, cap and rotor. Fuel filter, etc. All to make sure you are actually getting the best numbers.

If that's all been done already and your motor data is accurate (RPM, GPS speed too).....

If you are set on 4-blade, I recommend a 20 or 21. lower diameter will help to keep the RPMs up

If you would like to go 3 blade SS, I think a 21 would be your best bet. The blades are thinner, thus less drag. I assume 4600 RPM is your max?

If you would like to try a 5-blade, your data supports 21 (again, lower diameter prop).

Try plugging your data in to this Prop slip calc and see what you get... http://www.go-fast.com/Prop_Slip_Calculator.htm

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

Thanks Walt!

I gotta admit, I haven't checked the wires resistance in quite some time...or the cap and rotor...or the plugs.

I do the other maitnence. Every year my mechanic tells me he can sell my boat in 10 minutes; it lives in the garage so it's in good shape. It gets new fuel filters and sea water pump impellers often. I have a list of things to do this year:
Crankcase oil/filter change
Fuel Filter
sea water impeller
Gear oil
Bushings in the gearcase for the sea water connector tube

new brake shoes and hardware for the trailer...change the brake fluid

now I will add the ignition service...thanks Walt

Maybe I should ask why you don't like the 4 blade option?

I agree with Walt that the SST props hold up great. I have had all kinds of nasty prop strikes with SST props, and never hurt a gear set. The rubber hub takes up the shock without damage in most cases. I have used nothing but SST props since 1986, and I only had one rubber hub that started to slip, but still gets you home at lower rpm. Never had a broken blade or damaged gear set. My current prop is 19 years old and still going strong (Michigan 3 blade SST).

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Good upkeep list... FYI, I do the plugs about every 5 yrs on my boats.

I used an Alum 4 blade prop on my last boat. Overall performance was improved over the 3 blade Alum, until I tried a 3 blade SS. The SS had better bottom end and top end than the Alum 4. I've even tried a 4 blade SS on my FW, and nothing remarkable. I use the Hi-Five and recommend it to anyone doing water sports as it holds power/speed/RPM better than anything else I've run. I lost about 2 mph on the top end and could over-rev if lightly loaded.... and that's going up 2" in pitch (wishing I had gone up 2" more). I would not recommend going to a 5-blade until you KNOW EXACTLY what pitch you need. I use my 3 blade SS for longer cruises, or when lightly loaded and the hole-shot isn't a necessity.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

Steve, your post reminds me a little of me. I bought a '95 190 Horizon brand new with the same 5.0 EFI Ford engine, sunsport interior, and camper canvas. The original prop on mine was a 14 1/4 x 21 aluminum. The best I saw was 54mph at 4600 rpm. I bought a new Stiletto stainless prop of the same size and found no difference at all. Different brands and models of props of the same dimensions can produce results that vary significantly. Choose wisely. Try them out if possible before buying. Some stores will allow this. I agree that maintaining 18 mph in that boat is a work in progress requiring constant monitoring and adjustment. I found the boat to be kind of heavy in the back end and did not like to be trimmed below about 35mph, unless I had a load of passengers up front. Other than that, we operated it from 1995 through early 2012 and put over 2000 hours on it. With reasonable maintenance and care we had great luck. I experimented with a fin on the outdrive for a while, but did not like it and removed it. Hope this helps. Gary

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

What is your maximum useable RPM range of your engine package?
Remember that adding a blade will reduce your RPM by up to 200, so factor that in.

_________________
2011 Four Winns H180 SS.
Aussie built Mustang 2800.
SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS

Hi Walt, and everybody else, thank you for your opinions. I have owned this boat for 18 years. I have realized that I don't have too many friends who own boats. Of those, not many of them know a whole lot about their boats. They take them for service and repairs, or they ask me questions. So, it's nice to meet you guys.

My max rpm is listed as 4600. However, I rarely ever use max speed. I usually cruise along between 30-35mph. I'm not sure what the rpms are at those speeds. I'm just not in a hurry and I am trying to take it easy on the engine and outdrive.

OK, adding another blade reduces rpm by 200...so a 19 pitch 4 blade might give similar performance to the 21 pitch 3 blade? Did I get that right?

Hi Gary, it's nice to meet you. I installed I installed a SE Sport 300 fin in my quest for this different performance requirement. I too am not crazy about it. It actually feels like the trim is more sensative with a lesser range. I do a lot of turning with the kids in the inner tube. I installed this to help with planing and to reduce the prop blowout. Hmm. I'm not convinced of the manufacturers claims.

In general, do these things work? Are the less effective on my FW Stable V hull? (I really love my Stable V hull!) This hull has what I call water wheelie bars. The large pods that are formed into the aft portion of the hull put this boat on plane in literally 3 seconds. That's just too cool. That and the SX drive are why I bought this boat. WooHoo!

Thanks again for the input.

R, Steve

I believe you are backwards... The 19P 4 blade will give you better hole shot than your 3 blade 19P. You will lose about 200 RPM (adding a blade), thus better lower-end, at reduced top end of the 3BL 19P that you currently run. It would be similar to running a 18P 3BL.

The way I look at it.... adding a blade is like running wider tires on your car. You get more "traction" (hole-shot), but you cannot go faster without drastically changing tire diameter (prop pitch).

My general rule is "Add a blade, add an inch" due to the reduced prop diameter (I added 2" for a 5-blade, and resulted in much improved lower end with slightly lower top end). I would suggest trying a 4BL 20P (about the same overall performance of you 3BL 19P, with just a bit more hole-shot) or a 4BL 21P (about the same hole-shot as your 19P, with a little more on the top end and probably not over the RPM range). Keep in mind, even with extreme changes in prop pitch, diameter, etc, you are not likely to have a change of more than 3 MPH in your top end. IMO different props primarily let you "tune" your performance for your ideal use.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

I think you have it just about right. That should get your rpm's where you want them.
My rpm's are higher with a 4-blade 19 than a 3- blade 21.
I've been using the 4-blade for a few years now, and have no complaints.

Walt may be 100% correct with what he said, but he confused me.

_________________
2002 Horizon 190 5.0gl

To clearify...
A 21P 4 blade would give you similar performance to a 19P 3 blade. Not the other way around.

_________________
Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

I wrote a reply and it seems to have gotten lost in cyberspace. I wonder what I did wrong?

Basically it said thanks Walt.

Hey from tadpole to guppy in two days! That's encouraging.

I like your anology of more blades equalizes a wider tire, ie better "traction".

I found these webpages that seem to explain propellers pretty well:

http://www.killcaremarina.com.au/index. ... llers.html

http://www.mercurymarine.com/propellers/about/overview/

Looking back, I shouls have posted this in the "propeller" section. (Newbie mistake).

Steve,

Generally, adding 2 inches of pitch (going from 19" to 21") will reduce top end rpm by approximately 300 to 400 rpm, hopefully while gaining in mph. This is because the increased pitch moves the boat farther per prop revolution. But this is more load on the engine so it will not rev up as high. The boat moves farther with less rpm just like using a higher gear in a car. Boat manufacturers try to prop a boat so it is within the top half of the engine's max rpm range. Your '96 190 Horizon with a Ford 5.0 EFI has a max rpm range of 4200 to 4600 rpm, so I would aim for the 4400-4600 rpm range at top end. If you have other needs like pulling heavy slalom skiers you might want to go 2 inches less in pitch. Remember that you can go too far either way in changing prop pitch, just like your car starting lugging out in high gear or cruising down the interstate over revving in second gear.

An increase in prop diameter will cause a smaller decrease in rpm, but will likely have an affect. Larger diameter props are typically used for heavier boats. A larger diameter prop will give more thrust at low boat speed, but may sacrifice top end. A smaller diameter prop may allow for more pitch and top end speed, but the boat may not have the prop blade surface area and thrust to accelerate as well at low speed. Your boat most likely came originally with a 14 1/4 x 21p prop like mine.

Going to a 4 or 5 blade prop will add more blade surface area which equates to more load and lower top end rpm. To offset this increased load a slight reduction in diameter is often used to maintain rpm. I agree that adding a blade will affect rpm, but I think a previous poster had it backwards. More blade area is more load. More load is less rpm. A 4 blade 19" pitch would come closer to a 3 blade 21" pitch of the same diameter. One thing to look at is the surface area of a prop blade. Some props have great big "elephant ear" blades to push heavy loads while other prop blades are much smaller. This larger surface area requires more power to turn.

Keep in mind that different brands and models of props can behave very differently. Hopefully you can get good advise from others to select the perfect prop on your first attempt.

If you haven't seen it yet, the Four Winns factory web site has a great resource for information to support most boats. Under "Customer Service" you can find "Fast Facts", owners manuals, and parts catalogs.

You mentioned that you have an SE 300 Sport fin. I noticed on my 190 after I installed the fin that I had to trim up once on plane and trim up more and more as boat speed increased. I was always readjusting trim with power and speed changes. I also noticed issues when I had a skier or tube rider that fell. Making a turn back to retrieve them while on plane would cause the boat to lean in to the turn almost to the point of being scary. It would just about put the gunwhale in the water. Also, cruising at 25+ mph with full down trim would cause the boat to lean to the left (port) side. I gave up on the fin and removed it because I felt that the fin caused more problems than it helped. The boat is a very nice handling stable boat. If you remove your fin the holes can be filled with an epoxy and touched up.

Hope this helps.

Gary

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon

Nice summary. I have been doing a fair amount of prop research as I am trying to determine the proper pitch if moving to a 5-blade. This pretty much sums up what I have read. I am currently running a 19P 3-blade and am trying to decide on a 17P 5-blade or a 19P 5-blade for the reasons broken down in this response. I also believe going up in pitch and blades is not the way to go if you are in your rpm range already.

_________________
Seth




2005 210 Horizon
5.0L GXi
"Don't Think Twice"

It is common to go to a smaller diameter with a 4 or 5 blade. Sometimes 1/2 to 3/4 inch less in diameter. This may let you gain in low end without giving away the store on top end. Any way you cut it, do your research. Its a lot cheaper than trying to re-sell extra props that didn't work.

One other thing. The Volvo SX and Merc props have a different number of splines(15 vs19) and are not interchangeable. However, the hub can be changed in many cases. Just know what you are getting.

_________________
Surface Interval: A scuba diving term for that time between dives to relax and prepare for life's next great adventure.

Current boat: '02 FW 268 Vista
Previous boat: '95 FW 190 Horizon