used boat pre-buy checklist

jontmiller · **Joined:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am **Posts:** 296

Hello,

Have searched a bit but wanted to post the question as well. Looking at a 1998 Horizon 20 foot with Volvo Penta V-6 soon and wondering if there is a list of common issues that should be looked at prior to making an offer. I am waiting for more information than the Craigslist add (hours, owner history, exact model info etc) but want to do some research and be as informed as I can.

I am assuming at this age and pricepoint (sub $7,000) the boat will have some issues, I don't mind having to turn a wrench or shine up the boat, but at the same time this will be a first boat for us and don't want to start on the wrong foot.

Thanks for any information and advice.

Jon

ric · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:40 am

Hours make zero difference. None what so ever.

If you're really serious most boat shops do inspections for around $300. They'll give you a list of things that need addressed. If the owner doesn't want to do it at your expense then you know it's a POS and keep shopping.

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:58 am

With older boats the first thing I'd look for is fiberglass damage and rot in the wood core and structure, that boat is old enough to have wood stringers, deck and transom. Wood rot repairs are difficult and expensive, and that boat is going on 15 years old. If it was not stored properly it could have rot. Get someone who is familiar with boat construction to look at it. Next you need to have the engine, drive and steering system inspected.

ric · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:44 am

I looked at a 2004 boat dry stored with 170 hours last weekend. Rotted to hell, whole boat falling apart in every aspect. My 2000 Four Winns I sold last month with probably 3000 hours was 100% mechanically perfect and 95% cosmetically perfect. Stored outside.

It's all about the maintenance and to be quite honest... hours. The more hours on the boat, the more it was used and cared for. If you find a 10+ year old boat with 100 hours, it's almost guaranteed that it's a rotted POS unless it was a unicorn that was stored in climate control, gas drained, and oils changed every year.

BUT, they are out there.

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:53 am

The main thing is the storage and the maintenance. If you are in a damp climate like Long Island it is difficult and real estate here is very expensive so few people store their boats inside. Most are left outside either shrink wrapped or with covers or tarps. After I fixed all the rot in mine and there was a LOT, I invested in a custom cover and made a support frame for it, that holds up to about 4-6 in of snow, made of wood and fiberglass bows you can get at West Marine. It took a while to get it right but it keeps all the water out of the boat all winter. When it's on the mooring the inside stays pretty dry and I do not get any mildew on the seats because the Sunbrella covers breathe well. Air circulation is very important.

Maintenance on boats is a big thing too. I have seen many short cuts over the years and most people that are not mechanically inclined have no idea that these machines are complex and not that easy to work on so it's going to cost you. That's why I go on my rants when I see new FW bowriders with all the molded in 'glass that is not needed that turns the starter change into an engine pull and the owner pays.

If I got another boat I would look for something no more than 3 seasons old, that way the effects of time are not so much. I am more inclined to just re-power the old boat when the time comes.

jontmiller · **Joined:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am **Posts:** 296

Im pretty suspicious of this one actually as its at least its second owner and he's only had it 2 months. But I am not in a hurry, just trying to figure out if at some point there is too much work to make even a 'cheap' boat worth the effort. And where a good starting point is on price.

I don't need something perfect, in a best case scenario this would be a 2 season boat with a brand new one after I get the family hooked. (wife is from the desert and doesnt quite 'get it' but I grew up with a little Glastron bow-rider and miss it.

Appreciate the information thus far, please keep it coming.

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:39 am

Its easy to get into trouble because of not knowing what to look for may cause you to overlook problems (starter boat, etc) It's OK to buy an older boat but you have to know what to look for and be ready to walk away if you see any rot, repairs done on the cheap (like fixing a rotted deck by laying the new over the old rotted one and covering it with carpet) and neglected mechanicals.
I hate carpet in boats by the way. I would not buy ANY open boat with carpet over a plywood cored deck. It is a sure recipe for rot unless you live in the desert. The manufacturers used to lay a thin skim coat of glass over the wood, then glue carpet to it to make it look nice and hide their sloppy glass work and then drill holes to mount the seats with no sealer. The moisture gets into the wood, the carpet keeps it damp and the deck rots.

Look for a boat with a full fiberglass liner no carpet ever.

When I re-did mine I had the new deck 'glassed in non skid gelcoat and all the holes were sealed with 3M 4200. The boat is kept covered all the time when not in use and never left out in the rain uncovered.

BTW, all you fresh water guys, it is that nice freshwater that causes the rot that ruins boats, not salt water. The bacteria that rots wood can't live in salt water.

Bogger · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:19 am

The salt water vs fresh water theory I believe...

When I look at my outdrive it looks like something out of the war of 1812, pitted and scared from 14 years of a salt water life. however according to my mechanic she is 100% mechanically sound on the internals. When my transom seal needed to be re-done this spring my mechanic prepared me for the worst, told me if the seal had been going for a while then I could be looking at some serious transom rot. Turns out there was minimal rot in my threw hull and now that it has been resealed I'm told I should be good for at least another 15 years. not sure if being in salt water played any part in this scenario but I have read other forums where by the time the water had penetrated the seal enough to show visible leaking the transom and stringers were rotted and had to be replaced to the tune of $5K - $7K.

I always liked the idea of a "fresh water boat" but maybe it is not always an advantage....

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:54 am

My issues in the salt have been limited to these areas really:
1) the antifouling paints for aluminum do not work well,so you get barnacles. I have used Trilux and it does not work well, I am going to try the Pettit product next season and see if that works better.
2) Thermostats get sticky and do not close all the way so the engine runs cold, I usually change them every 2 years. However if you had closed cooling (greatly preferred) this is a non issue.
3) exhaust manifolds have to be replaced every 5-7 years
4) trailer brakes need more maintenance and I have learned how to keep the wheel cylinders from sticking in salt use. The whole trailer needs more maintenance but if you start with a trailer suited for salt water use in the first place (aluminum or galvanized, torsion axles, stainless steel brakes) it's much less. I have been able to keep the trailer nearly rust free by liberal coating with trailer wheel bearing grease (springs, drum brake adjusters, all u-bolts).

As far as corrosion, that is mostly a concern with moored/slipped boats in marinas, with stray currents. If in a slip you really have to stay on top of that. I have a salt water mooring, no shore power nearby so it's a non issue. You have to change the anodes at least once a season.

Other than those things it is not nearly as bad ad its made out to be.

The pluses are, there are tides yes but they are predictible every 12 hrs is a high tide, droughts do not affect us at all and there are low water areas on the South Shore but they are marked and the charts are good. On the North Shore where I am there is plenty of deep water everywhere. If you hit bottom there are rocks though, on the South Shore it's all sand. We do get storms but the harbor where I keep it is protected and I will pull it if a strong tropical storm comes through.

If the boat was a trailer boat the only issues would be the cooling system and the trailer, that's it.

Bogger · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:07 pm

Thanks for the heads up,

I'd better check my exhuast manifolds this fall....

Brakes are for puzzies.....lol

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:13 pm

what you are looking for is two fold:
1) remove the risers and look and see how clogged they are getting, flaking rust is going to restrict the cooling water flow.
2) look at the sealing surface between the risers and manifolds, if its getting eroded by rust then you have to replace them. You can get water leaking from that joint, down to the exhaust gas passage and it will leak into the cylinder and rust exhaust valve stems.

I found that after about 4-5 seasons the water outlets in the riser start getting clogged but there was not much flaking rust and I could un-clog them and still use them. But by 7-8 years I'd replace.

jontmiller · **Joined:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am **Posts:** 296

This boat I am looking at is priced right at the NADA suggestions, I am in a strong negotiating position as I don't need a boat

But seriously, is that the general starting point in most negotiations? Is there a general thought on what parts of the country are better/worse for a boat? (this is Northeast)

gratuitious old boat photo

slide472 by millerjont, on Flickr

jontmiller · **Joined:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am **Posts:** 296

Took the boat our for a short ride today, started and ran fine, got up to speed, trim appeared to work normally (guage not working) engine looks very clean, rest of boat needs a good cleaning, slight squeal when turning to the limit, similiar to automobile power steering squeal, do boats to the same thing?

Boat is a 1998 Horizon 200 with volvo 4.3 with 500 hours on the meter (is that alot?)

In my mind its the perfect boat, IE not perfect but in good mechanical condition, at least on a first inspection. Any inputs on offering price (asking 6800, which is right at NADA suggested price) with a trailer, covers, few toys etc.

I get the impression he's a motivated seller

skidaddytn · **Joined:** Mon May 03, 2010 11:12 am **Posts:** 281

A lot of boats don't even have hourmeters. I've always wondered how many hours I had on my last boat (which had the same engine as the one you are looking at).. I bet it was not as old as that when I sold it, and had even more hours... it was in good shape. I've already put 210 on my '07... of course, most are cruising hours as we routinely like to drive an hour or so down/up the river... The price is not too far off, but I would at least offer 1k less and see what happens... is it FI or carb?

jontmiller · **Joined:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am **Posts:** 296

It has a carb,

He lowered the price already on C-list and I threw an offer a bit below that, (end of season, schools starting in 3 weeks here etc) hope he says yes but not the end of the world if he says no. Seems like a genuine seller in a pinch (got a good vibe chatting with him in person) so who knows. Engine was the cleanest part on the boat, rest seemed like it would take well to a good scrubbing but it felt good on the water.

fingers crossed

www.iFourWinns.com

used boat pre-buy checklist

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