1996 Horizon 240 engine question

ric · **Posted:** Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:20 am

Good looking boat for it's age

Scott4560 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:40 pm **Posts:** 21

LouC wrote:

Looks like the Ford 5.8 EFI engine, if you can get the same block/heads then you can re-use everything. First I'd check to see if EFI parts, ignition parts, manifolds & risers are still available. If major parts like that are NLA, them it might make sense to change it over to a Chevy 5.7 with a 4 bb carb to keep costs down. Go back on
http://www.crowleymarine.com
Look in parts see if the Chevy was offered with your drive, the things that you have to modify will be the exhaust, engine mounts, etc.

We still don't know, is it an OMC or Volvo. In some years 94-98 they were identical which will help with parts since you should be able to get them from Volvo.

What you really need to find out is the OMC or Volvo model # which is usually on the engine somewhere, that's what helps in ordering parts.

I used to be able to look up Volvo parts in the on line parts catalog for Doug Russell Marine but that is gone now. Crowley Marine is very good but they only have Merc and OMC. I'd find out what you have, then look up parts #s for those items if you can and see if you can find out the equivalent Volvo part # (some were the same as OMC #s) if possible. I'd hate to see you put in a new engine and then have an ECU fail and now you can't find them. As long as Volvo also used the same engine with the same fuel injection and ignition system you should be able to get parts. But you have to do your research first.....

The boat is immaculate. It's why I bought it. My boss babied her... Waxed and detailed every year, maintenanced religiously, etc.

I have no idea what you're talking about in the latter half of your post. Way over my head. It's the Volvo penta something or other.

Pic here, hope this helps:

Huge thanks for everyone's help so far. Learning a ton!

I hope I am able to just go with the original route.

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:54 am

Well looks like you're in luck, that's a Volvo Penta SX drive and as long as the important parts like I said above are available, you should be able to stick with what you got.
What I was talking about, was a joint venture that happened between OMC and Volvo in the 90s. In 1994, the OMC Cobra was redesigned to use Volvo style cone clutch shifting. The 2 companies put out an identical product, that was built for OMC from 94-98. Volvo continued to build this drive for years after OMC went out of business. Basically Volvo wanted OMC's gimble system and transom mount and OMC was having financial troubles so they sold some percentage of their interest in the sterndrive business to Volvo. This allowed Volvo to sell drives that used the same cut out as the Mercs which made it easier for them to get their drives installed on more boats. The older style Volvos were totally different in the way they mounted to the transom. The OMC Cobra was designed from the start to use the same mounting system and the same cut out in the transom as Merc.

So when you are looking at a FW from this age range, you want to know if its an OMC Cobra or Volvo SX. Even though they are mostly identical, the Volvo will be easier to get parts for. Not cheap but easier.

ric · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:53 am

It's a shame even though that boat is older, you have the most expensive engine/drive combination known to man in terms of maintenance and repair costs that volvo ever sold.

Scott4560 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:40 pm **Posts:** 21

LouC wrote:

Well looks like you're in luck, that's a Volvo Penta SX drive and as long as the important parts like I said above are available, you should be able to stick with what you got.
What I was talking about, was a joint venture that happened between OMC and Volvo in the 90s. In 1994, the OMC Cobra was redesigned to use Volvo style cone clutch shifting. The 2 companies put out an identical product, that was built for OMC from 94-98. Volvo continued to build this drive for years after OMC went out of business. Basically Volvo wanted OMC's gimble system and transom mount and OMC was having financial troubles so they sold some percentage of their interest in the sterndrive business to Volvo. This allowed Volvo to sell drives that used the same cut out as the Mercs which made it easier for them to get their drives installed on more boats. The older style Volvos were totally different in the way they mounted to the transom. The OMC Cobra was designed from the start to use the same mounting system and the same cut out in the transom as Merc.

So when you are looking at a FW from this age range, you want to know if its an OMC Cobra or Volvo SX. Even though they are mostly identical, the Volvo will be easier to get parts for. Not cheap but easier.

Thanks!

So, what you're saying is, I can go with another Ford EFI and the compatibility btwn the engine and drive will not be an issue and if something ever goes awry with the drive system (the Volvo) I will be able to get parts for the repair, correct?

Here is what I need to know to move forward: what should I do? Should I have a tech diagnose the problem (I've already had one diagnose it from the top checking compression and what not to see if the problem was something easy a lifter valve or something like that)? The tech indicated that he would have to tear the boat part and drop the oil pan to find the problem since he couldn't pin point it.

I don't want to waste a bunch of coin on labor only to find out the engine is indeed going to need to be replaced.

Thanks

ric · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:01 am

That's a SX-M drive. Parts will never be in stock at a local dealer but they can be had.

You're in one of those situations where you really need a friend that knows car engines. Nobody you know builds old mustangs or camaros? Its just a 351w truck motor from an f150.

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:17 pm

Not having heard it run it's hard to advise you. If they say they need to pull the engine and tear it down you have to decide if you want them to rebuild your old one or get a new engine. Compare price estimates for both. Keep in mind you can't just pull a 5.8 out if a truck and drop it in the boat. You have to use marine head gaskets and core plugs and the marine oil pan (if it's different). I'd want to make sure there were no cracks from too late winterizing before you rebuild. A comp test and oil analysis will tell you a lot.

ric · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:29 pm

LouC wrote:

Not having heard it run it's hard to advise you. If they say they need to pull the engine and tear it down you have to decide if you want them to rebuild your old one or get a new engine. Compare price estimates for both. Keep in mind you can't just pull a 5.8 out if a truck and drop it in the boat. You have to use marine head gaskets and core plugs and the marine oil pan (if it's different). I'd want to make sure there were no cracks from too late winterizing before you rebuild. A comp test and oil analysis will tell you a lot.

That's true for the old ford stuff, but generally speaking you would just buy a "short block" or rotating assembly. There's no need to pay extra money for heads and stuff when you already have em. Plus the marine 351 heads are "GT40" cast iron units. Not too shabby.

purdueosch · **Joined:** Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:52 am **Posts:** 141

Scott4560 wrote:

Anyone in the KC metro want to come over and help? Will pay in boulevard beer!

Now you've caught my attention! If only I had the time.

Scott4560 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:40 pm **Posts:** 21

LouC wrote:

Not having heard it run it's hard to advise you. If they say they need to pull the engine and tear it down you have to decide if you want them to rebuild your old one or get a new engine. Compare price estimates for both. Keep in mind you can't just pull a 5.8 out if a truck and drop it in the boat. You have to use marine head gaskets and core plugs and the marine oil pan (if it's different). I'd want to make sure there were no cracks from too late winterizing before you rebuild. A comp test and oil analysis will tell you a lot.

What does a comp test consist of? I think the mechanic did this last week. If u can tell me what the steps are (I watched him do this) I can tell you with certainty whether he did this or something else. He was removing spark plug connectors I believe and isolating each cylinder to see if the knocking would stop. Something like that.

Regarding the oil analysis, can I simply pull a sample of oil and take it in?

Thanks again!

Winter Sux · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:51 pm

Like I said, loose flywheel bolts are common and will sound like the engine's going south. The 351W is a tough engine. If it's been serviced like you say, I highly doubt it's an engine issue.

The oil analysis will have specific instructions how to do it.

LouC · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:08 pm

The compression test tells us how well the piston rings and valves are sealing. It is performed by dis-abling the ignition removeing the spark plugs, screwing a compression tester into the plug hole and cranking over the engine. The PSI that registers on the gauge gives you a sense of engine wear, good readings are all over 100 and within about 15% of each other. The mechanic was disconnecting plug wires to see if the knocking would stop if he hit the cylinder with worn bearings, did he find one that did not knock when it was disconnected? If not, then it could be the flywheel bolts. Problem is that I don't think there is anyway to get to them without pulling the engine out. Oil analysis will tell you if there are wear particles, and what they are likely from (if you have a bad bearing this will very likely show up). Contact Blackstone Labs or similar and ask them how to take a sample. In your case that might give more information than a compression test. If the oil sample does not show higher than average cylinder wear and bearing wear, again it points to something else, flywheel bolts, etc. I am not a Ford engine expert so I can't say really for sure.

230 Mike · **Posted:** Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:24 pm

Scott4560 wrote:

Anyone in the KC metro want to come over and help? Will pay in boulevard beer!

Hell, I missed that somehow. What part of KC? I'm pretty full-up schedule-wise lately, but depending on where you are...

Scott4560 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:40 pm **Posts:** 21

purdueosch wrote:

Scott4560 wrote:

Anyone in the KC metro want to come over and help? Will pay in boulevard beer!

Now you've caught my attention! If only I had the time.

Booooooooo. Find it!

I feel like I've seen your boat out there somewhere. I recognize the name.

Scott4560 · **Joined:** Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:40 pm **Posts:** 21

230 Mike wrote:

Scott4560 wrote:

Anyone in the KC metro want to come over and help? Will pay in boulevard beer!

Hell, I missed that somehow. What part of KC? I'm pretty full-up schedule-wise lately, but depending on where you are...

Shawnee, boat is in smithville, in-laws are on the 36mm down at LOZ and the other set is in blue springs...I can bring her anywhere around here.

Will reimburse in Tank 7

www.iFourWinns.com

1996 Horizon 240 engine question

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