www.iFourWinns.com

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone on advice to date. From helping me pick the correct configuration on the boat to words of wisdom and support on this ridiculous delivery.

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2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie

If you don't mind, can you keep us in the loop on how it works out? I know your pissed and don't always want to share bad experiences, but this can be a great learning experience for folks buying new boats. It will also be a nice way to see how Four Winns really works with their customers.

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2001 Horizon 260 - 7.4 Volvo GSI DP

I did buy from Phil Dill. Great experience so far. Our demo guy also pointed out a few things while we were out on the water and told me to just bring it back as soon as I can and he'd take care of them. Mostly minor stuff. I met Phil, briefly at the boatshow, but he wasn't there for our pickup. They have built their dealership on great service before/during and after the sale. One of the top reasons I bought from them.
c5er I am so sorry to hear about your experience. I can't echo the things Mike and Cougar have said loud enough, especially the point about service after the sale. I'm worried that you might have a service nightmare on your hands. This is not what you want at all. I really hope this works out for you.

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2008 H210SS VP 5.7 Gi/SX
2011 Ford F150 FX4 EB

+1 to Mike (I feel like I should change my screen name to that ) and to Cougar. If this were me, I'd not only be walking away from that dealership, but I'd also be thinking about buying a Crownline or other competitor of FW. I would MOST definitely contact FW. c5er, I've VERY sorry to hear about your experience.

What this dealer tried to pull, while ethically and morally wrong and bad business, bad customer relations, etc. is also FRAUD. I know it may be tempting to try to stick it to the dealer to try to get everything you want, but I'd take off in another direction. That boat has taken a lot of abuse with tons of weight in it while on the trailer, too much traffic, etc. at the show. You'll always know about that, wonder about it, and attribute anything that ever goes wrong with it to "that damned boat show it was in."

I hope you stick with FW, as the boats are great, but I'd find a different unit from a different dealer. In the event that you DO decide to proceed with this boat, I'd stick the dealer for ANYTHING you can get. But, I would not accept anything that forces you to go back there. Make them take real dollars off of the price, give you merchandise, option upgrades, accessories, etc. but DO NOT accept a free 20 hour service, 100 hour service, etc. If they have proven to not be trustworthy when you were there to catch them, they most certainly can't be trusted to properly perform those repair/maintenance services when you are not there. Don't ever deal with them again after this.

While being VERY careful about possibly committing slander on this board, I would keep an eye out on this board for anyone in your area and give them advance warning about this particular dealer. Be very careful in doing so, though. While "truth" can be a defense to any slander/libel suit, it is better to avoid that headache in the first place. However, others deserve to know about this dealer's questionable practices before the fact.

Sorry again, and please do keep us posted on your progress. We all want to see you come out as happy as possible in the end. Good luck to you.

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

We bought the boat as new, so was expecting new. I had thought that what they presented to us as new was just something that they had used in a show. In looking at the show dates, it was after we signed the papers for the boat that they then sent the boat to a show before delivery.

Frankly i am not sure whats worse selling us a pre-existing boat used as a show boat, or taking a customers boat and using it at a show.

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2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie

LOL, good question! IMO, neither would be done by anyone with a conscience.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

First thing you need before anything is a photo from the boatshow that has your boat in it. Check websites, newspapers whatever.
Then a call to upper managment in FW or Possibly even Genmar may be in order. Bypass your dealer at this point he has already demonstrated his value in your interest.
During this call I would start by advising that the factory rebate for boat show boats will be made payable to you and then go on to explain precisely why. I very much doubt they will cut you a check and then pursue the dealer for the difference so you may then advise them that you will be hiring a lawyer and suing in small claims for the return of your deposit and will be taking your purchase elswhere - but be sure that you are not threatening to go to another boat in the Genmar group like Larson, Wellcraft or Glasstron. Say you are going to Regal or something.
I suspect that you will soon offered at the least the full demo rebate on your original purchase and the dealer is no longer going to be in the position of deciding what it takes to make you happy - you will (within reason of course). You are cutting out the middle guy and he's got it coming when playing by those rules. Manufactures or Regional offices will bend over backwards to keep you happy if you have a legitimate complaint that you documented - especially the way economies have been of late.
If it were me in that position I would then advise FW or Genmar that I would not accept a boat from a dealer with such disregard but I would consider accepting a comparable unit for a better discount than the original agreed sale price at the next closest retailer if they could ensure a reasonable delivery date. Either that or the same price with some extra upgrades. Man, if FW gets involved I would bet the boat you get will be perfect, they would go over it hard-core before it leaves the plant.
Its been my experiance that when you are defrauded by a dealer and go to the regional office, the regional office will unleash a nasty can of whoop on the dealer and will make the arrangements themselves to make you happy with another nearby dealer. Nobody wants to play that way but after all it wasn't you that tried to pull a fast one.
I do hope it works out for you - there are decent dealers out there.

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2008 Four Winns 210 5.7 GI/SX
2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Crew
1966 Fed-Up Wife

I'm still shocked that the dealer would try to pull this stunt and risk the sale of a boat over a boat show display. I'm pretty positive it's the same place where I purchased my boat last year and they bent over backwards to help me out and get me going...and I purchased a used boat.

If this is how they're treating customers now at a time when sales of boats are decreasing, it does not bode well, even if they are the largest dealer in the area.

I agree with many others that the $500 is a drop in the bucket for them and I'm sure is a small percentage of your purchase price. If you would accept this boat, but would prefer a new-right off the truck-boat ask for the world or insist a new boat be ordered ASAP.

Best of luck in resolving this.

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-Rob.


Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX

I'm sitting at my desk and when I read c5er's post that he had already signed a purchase/sale agreement and then the dealer had the balls to take his boat to a boat show!

Holy cow --- that would be like you go to buy a car... you sign the agreement in the sales office, then before you get into the financing person - the dealership lets someone else test drive the car you have already agreed to buy! How pissed would you be!

c5er... I don't know how much you gave them for a deposit...but I would be on the doorstep of the general manager's office (or owner) - askind very politely for your deposit back... Going in with a flame thrower will only cause problems... but if you go in and make it simple - they can't really disagree.

Dealer says "why do you want to walk away from the deal and get your deposit back"

c5er says "when I signed the papers with you guys, it was under the agreement that this is a new boat - not a boat show boat (don't use the word demo). I totally understand that you may have needed a boat to send to the show, but I was never asked permission nor would have I ever given approval. I wanted a new boat. Since you guys don't have a new boat with the specs I want to sell me now - then I will just get my deposit back and go somewhere esle".

I would keep it simple... and to the point. The more I anguish about this -- the more I think that buying a boat from that dealership is just a bad idea. (and there appears to be others who agree with me).

But -- c5er -- you gotta work all that out for youself. Man, frankly I'm glad I am not in your position!

keep us posted!

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Tomorrow is when the sales and service manager are supposed to talk to the Gen Manager.

I am debating whether to call FWs before or after talking to the GM. Talking with a friend I hear that the GM maybe a reasonable guy.

The dealership took the low road in using the by using a sold boat at a show w/o permission. What i find far worse is that at the first signs of me not being happy about it they didnt apologize and ask what they could do to make it right? Instead they spent the time convincing me its just the same as new, with no wear.

In Good news. I was out at my in-laws lake house today, and there was open water on part of the lake - hurray.

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2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie

c5er... just remember that you are not being unreasonable in your expectations. The dealer may try to convince you otherwise -- but you are not.

What is your state law around deposits made? In Washington, there is no such thing as a non-refundable deposit unless the organization provides a food time item or something that expires. For deposits to be non-refundable on big ticket items, it would be up to the seller to prove that the special order is beyond the norm - otherwise... if it is considered a normal item - deposits are required by law to be refundable.

Good luck! And I kind of agree that it's probably worth waiting on the call to Four Winns until you hear from the GM.

I would expect that they will say "we'll just order you another new one"... which is fine... but is that enough to regain your trust as a customer?

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

I also had an issue with delivery of my latest boat. I ordered my boat late August and it was supposed to arrive my dealer by Columbus day weekend so we can take a few fall cruise before this winter came. Unfortunately the boat did not come until early November. Originally my dealer was told from FW that some of the parts are back order so they were waiting for them. However, we have informed later that they had some miss hap during assembly and needed to be repaired. When my boat arrived at the dealer they could still see the sign of repair so my dealer made a judgment to send it back to FW and get me a another new one. I did not even saw my original boat but my dealer made a judgment to do so. FW. did not challenge the decision or try to take a delivery with a discount. My dealer told me that simply they want me to have a “Brand” new boat since that was what I signed up for and I respect my dealer. That was a service we deserve and I felt very good about my dealers support. FW and my dealer have taken care of the issue I had to go through (although it was not bad at all… I could not got out a few days in fall but I do not need a boat in winter anyway) and they made sure I was happy with my purchase. c5er , I feel your issue is about your dealer and not FW. However, the dealer is the ones represents FW. product so you should contact FW and I am sure they would help you to straight things out.I also had an issue with delivery of my latest boat. I ordered my boat late August and it was supposed to arrive my dealer by Columbus day weekend so we can take a few fall cruise before this winter came. Unfortunately the boat did not come until early November. Originally my dealer was told from FW that some of the parts are back order so they were waiting for them. However, we have informed later that they had some miss hap during assembly and needed to be repaired. When my boat arrived at the dealer they could still see the sign of repair so my dealer made a judgment to send it back to FW and get me a another new one. I did not even saw my original boat but my dealer made a judgment to do so. FW. did not challenge the decision or try to take a delivery with a discount. My dealer told me that simply they want me to have a “Brand” new boat since that was what I signed up for and I respect my dealer. That was a service we deserve and I feel very good about my dealers support. FW and my dealer have taken care of the issue I had to go through (although it was not bad at all… I could not got out a few days in fall but I do not need a boat in winter anyway) and they made sure I was happy with my purchase. If my dealer ask me if I would take some of their potential buyer a ride of my boat I certainly would. c5er , I feel your issue is about your dealer and not FW. However, the dealer is the ones represents FW. product so you should contact FW and I am sure they would help you to straight things out if your dealer is not willing to do so.
Good Luck and keep us posted

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08 H260 VP 8.1Gi DP.....Previous
2013 Crownline E6 Merc 8.2MAG BIIIX, DTS/SC

c5er - what's the scoop? Any updates for today?

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

No response so far from GM.

Intrestingly, I called today and they paged him, the service manager answered the page and asked who it was then hung up, immediately, the operator came back on as said the GM was unavailable.

The service manager is one of the people convincing me that the show boat is just as perfect as a new boat.

So certainly they are in no rush to satisfy a customer, I believe they are more intrested in looking for a way other then making me happy.

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2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie

My next call would be to FW, and I would not delay doing so. Also, if you haven't already started documenting all of this in detail, do it NOW.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic