www.iFourWinns.com

Blessed, same concept as the chain. If you're using a chain then I wouldn't worry about it. I think it somehow just evolved into an adjustable strap over the years. Don't know why.

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

Ok... back on track to c5er...

I did some investigation today (aka I needed to call my dealer about a huge shipment of crap he is sending my way) - and I inquired about c5er's situation.

Response 1: Get the hell on the phone with Four Winns. They will take this type of event very seriously. Four Winns will most definitely put some pressure on the dealer to "make it right".

Interesting artifact:

As the dealer to see the co-op pictures or general pictures of the boat show that they told you they took your boat to BEFORE you purchased it. You want proof. Do you think they have pictures? I DO!!! Reason being, dealers have what is called a co-op fund with Four Winns that is essentially dealer holdback money that is designed to be used as advertising, marketing, boat shows, etc... It really pushes the dealers to get out there and advertise in their territory. They have to take pictures and submit proof of their activity in order to be reimbursed. Where does this money come? Well, we all know there is "hold back" money -- 2,3,5,7% of whatever... and let's assume that 1% of that hold back is designated as co-op. If that dealer has 1 million in gross sales, that 1% is ten thousand dollars -- if I were a dealer, that would pay for alot of newspaper ads. (I think 1 million in sales is a low number for most dealers anyway). As you can see -- this adds up... and because the dealers have to have PROOF at boat shows... they probably have pictures.

Also - ask the dealer to see pictures of their boat show -- it's VERY common for those dealers to take pictures of all the boats they took for reference. They will also have documentation that they took that boat to the show...


Now back to the situation at hand... You've already paid for a "new" boat, but you are getting a "boat show boat"... You are going to have to strongarm them with contact to Four Winns customer service and/or a lawyer if they are not getting you where you want to be.

My advice... start with Four Winns... tell them you purchased a new boat, but they are giving you a boat show boat that was NOT in good shape for delivery (I hope you took pictures, if not, go soon and get pictures). Give the dealer a chance to make it right and get you a new boat. If they won't, then think of a good number for that boat in cleaned up as best as possible form... I would guess somewhere between 30 and 35% off MSRP... and if they don't like that idea - then call a lawyer and file suit on Fraud charges -- bait & switch.

Oh - and don't forget about the Better Business Bureau -- dealers definitely pay attention to those claims.

_________________

2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Just out of curiosity, when a dealer orders a boat on your behalf, is it marked as such throughout manufacturing? Or does the dealer place a generic order?

Just wondering if the origination of the boat can be traced back to the order.

I agree with the 30-35% off, somthing that you would aim for on an in-stock model that's been sitting on the floor for some time. Especially since they opened it up for traffic prior to delivery.

_________________
-Rob.


Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX

All going Very poorly

I talked first with Bonnie Harris-Stewart; she was very nice, chased around to fined the right people to put in contact with me.

They forwarded me to Skip Marsh Regional Sales director, and Alan Rollinger (231-775-1351), who were useless.
Alan basically said its as good as new and we wont deny you warranty, the dealer makes a good offer. They called me after the called and talked with the GM first. Four winns wont step in between you and your dealer, you need to work it out with them.

I told Alan that my next step may be filing for breech of contract and I will not by FW when its over, he said ok.

So bottom line Four Winns doesnt care.

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie

Sorry this whole thing has been heading south.

I think you should refer him to the 5+ pages of posts on other FW owners that are concerned about this situation and how you are being treated.

If you are forced to accept the boat, I'd make sure that it is purely spotless (carpet, floor, gelcoat, etc) with no signs of traffic. I think anything less would be unacceptable with what they're offering.

Someone mentioned the volvo 2+4 warranty...that's not a bad thing to ask for either.

_________________
-Rob.


Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX

c5er... with the 1100 that your dealer is offering, what % discount of MSRP does that get you?

_________________

2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

the 1100 brings me to about 29% and remember 600 of it is in store credit which amounts to probably 200, so its less.

We had already paid for the 2+4. Maybe thats an opportunity for some fund returns.

This whole thing is disgusting. I am mostly pissed at myself for being so gullible on this, I never do anything this stupid, I usually have inherent mistrust.

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie

What's strange about this is my experience with the same dealer is the complete opposite and since I bought a used "as-is" boat, they didn't need to do anything.

Someone at the dealer made a terrible judgement in authorizing the use of the boat that came in for you prior to signing papers and made another bad judgement not telling you about it when you came in to sign. I think most of us could have easily been put into the same situation.

I guess if I ever buy new, I'll put in the contract "not to be used for any purpose prior to delivery".

_________________
-Rob.


Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX

Yeah, don't beat yourself up too bad over it. While you're off to a terrible start, my bet is that it's going to turn out OK in the end - one way or another. Just an expensive lesson, but everyone's had one of those at one time or another, or they will.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Well, I would never consider them again for a new boat, but will also condition the hell out of the contract. This has been a real , repeated slap in the face, eye opening experience.

Although its a reasonable expectation by an ordinary person that ordering a new boat would mean that you get a boat that was new and not used at a boat show.

_________________
2008 H210:
- Two tone Navy Blue, Silver and Yellow
- 5.0GXi/SX 270hp
2006 Dodge Ram 3500 4x4 5.9 Laramie

Agreed.

btw...if you need help picking out accessories with that dealer credit, give me a holler.

_________________
-Rob.


Current boat: 2011 Yamaha AR210
Previous boat: 1998 Horizon RX 4.3GL SX

c5er, you can't blame yourself. It isn't YOUR fault that they did something that they weren't supposed to do, or that they are now not doing what they should do.

Despite the answers that you are getting from FW, is it too late in your mind to torpedo this deal and just go to the next FW dealer and order what you want? Not sure of the details of your deal re: non-refundable deposits made once the order was taken, etc.

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

I think this is a big lesson learned...

At the very least, c5er should comb the boat for imperfections and have them fixed. It'd be easy to say "that probably happened when you had it at the boat show".

And also -- shoot for the biggest discount you can get... and don't get an instore credit - get a straight refund.

Find another boat shop to buy your accessories from. Then - when you do talk to people - be honest... don't be encouraging if they are considering buying from that dealer...

When all else fails, you could do a full page ad in your newspaper about your experience... call it a "column". Free speech. Just don't defame the dealership.

_________________

2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

It still seems that there is something smelling like fraud here, they kept this from you, if they were up front and offered more off, or a different boat, your choice, at least you would have known what you were dealing with. Kinda reminds me of that incident with ChryCo years ago when they were selling damaged cars as new. Got into a bit of hot water over that. I bet a local news station consumer reporter would love to get a hold of this story, but not sure if that would really help you at this point. I still think that FW should go to bat with the dealer, their reputation is also being sullied here, you are not likely to ever buy another FW again and it has nothing to do with the boat itself.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Did you mention this thread to FW? Maybe it's time we find an email address to someone in Cadillac and fill their email box with links to this thread and our support for having them do it right. This board as a group could cause some pretty big waves for the folks at FW if we wanted. Anyone have the CEO email address?

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2001 Horizon 260 - 7.4 Volvo GSI DP