www.iFourWinns.com

I couldn't tell if it was a 20 or 25" motor, good question! My 180 Freedom had the 25 while my 170 Horizon has the 20". The 20" motors are easier to find and a touch lighter, but I did enjoy the deeper transom of my 25" transom 180 when coming off plane.

I took a picture of it, I'll see if I can get it posted up here soon. All wrapped up.



I think it's impossible to tell Maybe one of the dealers will chime in?

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

Our F115 is a 20" on the H180 O/B

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Bryan Mutter

http://www.twincitymarine.com
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Thanks!!

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

I went to the GR boat show last night.

Hall's had 2 H180 OBs there.

This boat takes a 25" shaft motor.

I really like the boat. As compared to the other OB bowriders at the show (Checkmate, Glastron) I think the FW is the best...especially now that you can get a 150 HP motor.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

I'll be doing comparisons and picture taking tomorrow.

I heard the same good news from my dealer, 150 hp rating for the H180 now. If trailer boats magazine got 39 mph with the 130, then the 150 should push to at least mid 40's. I could just squeak out 48 mph with my (bigger) Freedom 180 with the carb Johnson 150 raised all the way up on the transom.

Checkmate is claiming 50 mph with the 115 in the new 20' boat, can the hull bottom really be that much more efficient?

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

I spent quite a bit of time talking with one of the Hall's guys last night. I can't think of his name right off. I have talked to him the last couple of years at the show.

He stated that Evinrude did a full test with the 130 on the FW....sure enough here is the report:

http://www.evinrude.com/Content/Pdf/neu ... /PE817.pdf

42.0 MPH top speed...thats more like it.

The Checkmate is extremely light. It is a long narrow hull. It is built for speed, not comfort. It is built light and it shows when you start poking around a bit. It has a 19 degree deadrise as compared to the FW at 21.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

One other thing to note on the FW. The capacity plate states up to 8 people. The website states 7.

I had my camera along and almost took it out to take a picture of that. Of all the things I saw at the show, that was one of the most interesting. I decided not to take any pictures for some reason.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Oh yeah, one other thing. The FW doesn't have a tachometer. I find that extremely strange. Every boat should have a tach. It is far more important than a speedo in my opinion.

The SS boat has a depth gauge, a combo speedo, temp, fuel and then a System Check light/alarm. Honestly the lack of a tach is the biggest turn off to me. I'm sure one could be added, or actually it would probably be best to replace the System Check with a combo tach/System Check. Although the gauge cluster is pretty crowed on the back side already.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Went to the GR boat show today and was disappointed in the FW H180OB. You can see where corners were cut, especially in the bow area back cushion but especially with the rear seating 'bench'. The person with me described it as the 'church pew' because of it's thin cushions and upright seating. Also, the FW web site says you can order the boat with Sunsport Seating which I was hoping would be more like the H180 I/O but no go. It's a mistake on the site and is not available. If FW is listening, I hope they quickly address the seating. I also would like to see FW get creative with the back of the boats and develop a nice swim platform option.

After looking at the FW, Glastron (GT180) and Checkmate 2000BRX, I'm ready to pull the trigger on the GT180. Although a little on the small side, Glastron got most of the key things right and pricing is very attractive. The Checkmate was very nice and somewhat in a higher class. The deal breaker for was the sloped back end which in my opinion borders on dangerous for deboarding. There was no non-skid, its a little rounded and slopes dow to the water. I can just imagine my 76 yr old father in law trying to walk there and slipping... no thanks.

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2014 Vista V435
2011 Glastron GT180
2013 Sea Doo RXT-260

I'm glad you made it to the show Bill.

I think the pricing differences between the Glastron and Four Winns are more about marketing than actual content. That being said, there are plenty of corners cut on the Glastron.

I find some of your comments sort interesting. I honestly didn't notice any significant shortcomings in the seats. The bow seats are exactly the same as a non OB H180. The rear bench is well thought out for functionality. The comfort is on par with my current boat.

Regarding the swim platform, in my opinion the FW has a far more functional and easily accessible swim platform than the Glastron. The Checkmate swimplatform is a joke.

Regarding overall fit and finish, I stand by what I said previously, the FW was the best out of the 3 OB bowriders at the show. It may be little things that bothered me about the Checkmate and the Glastron, but if the little things weren't good what about the big things?

Did you try to open the ski locker on the red Checkmate? You have to flip the carpet forward, then the very narrow hatch has to be opened from the side. The thing is the way they cut the carpet it is in the way...making if very difficult to get the hatch open. Did you pull the back seat out of the Checkmate, did you look at the workmanship under there? Lots of sharp cut edges and sloppy glasswork, let alone the attempt to cover it all up with paint and splatters of red. What about the joke of a glovebox on the Checkmate. It was big enough for about 3 items. Did you notice how the latch worked. It slid into a slot in the shell of the box that was obviously hand cut and not very well. I just had the feeling that the Checkmate was a very cheaply built boat designed for nothing other than going fast and getting attention.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

I can't disagree with you more about the transom area of the Checkmate versus the Four Winns Rotaryracer. I look at the actual strength of build when looking at outboard transoms, and where the FW 180 OB is barely built to handle 150 horse with a thin transom and very little knee bracing, the Checkmate is overbuilt. I also thought the Checkmate won out over the Glastron and Four Winns hands down where it comes to interior room. The bow seating area of both Cadillac built boats are simply too short. I'm 6' 4", and have several tall people in my family. The 18' boats are too compromised in the bow area to me as compared to the 20' Checkmate.

Pic of the boxed in/beefed up transom of the Checkmate that's rated for 225 horse:

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

Cockpit interiors are about the same size, but bow area isn't suitable for larger crowds in the Four Winns:

H180 OB:




2000BRX:



When it comes to my next boat, it's gotta have room and it's gotta be an outboard. Until FW makes a 19 or 20' OB model, it's out of the running for me. Additionally, when you figure in the more efficient hull of the Checkmate over the FW, top speed and typical fuel burn is going to be much easier on the wallet in the CM.

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

The bow in the 18' boat is no bigger than my little H170. OK for kids, no good for adults:

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

All three boats have there issues/short comings! With that being said, I would consider all three boats somewhat entry level, and when you think about entry level you're just not going to get all the things that truly make a boat 100% enjoyable IMO.


Also, what's the attraction to OB's anyway? I just see having a engine hanging off the back not only an eye sore, it just gets in the way of everything. Again thats just my opinion. Whenever I have shopped for a boat I never considered an OB, or spoke to anyone that would even recommend one unless its application was for salt water.


Jim

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2011 H210 SS
MerCruiser 350 MPIC/Bravo I 300hp
"Crooked Wake"


Prior Boat
1999 Bayliner 1950 CL

Hey JW, I'm glad you chimed in. I know you were planning to go and look at the Checkmate.

Your point about the structure in the transom is spot on. They built it to handle the intended power...no question there. However, your picture shows some of the sloppy glass work that I was refering to. If you poked your head in there and looked to the sides that may not have been noticeable to most people it was even worse. That isn't to say the Four Winns is perfect. It just seems to be a bit cleaner and thought out a bit more....of course with the seat design the way it is you really can't see much of the transom in the FW.

Regarding the space in the bow...yup no contest. Although the Checkmate has a pretty "pointy" bow, it definitely has more length and the seats are a bit more ergonomic.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs