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Potential new H210 owner
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Author:  Wiscosolid [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Potential new H210 owner
First post on this forum but hoping it's not my last. I went in to look at a used sea ray the other day and walked out strongly considering a new H210. I love the extra capacity and the roomy feel of the hull configuration. I'm looking at a few good deals but the best one happens to have the 5.0 bravo 3 instead of the alpha. Does the bravo 3 make any sense on 21ft boat with under 300 hp? I'm thinking this could be the reason the best deal is on this particular set up despite the bravo 3 being a higher cost option. Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. While I've been on boats my entire life this would be my first as an owner. Thanks in advance.
Author:  melvinvillagemarina [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
There is no problem with the Bravo 3 on that boat- just about all of the Horizon 210's that we stock here are single prop drives (we run mainly Volvo Penta) but other than cost, there is really no disadvantage to the Bravo 3. (Impact cost could be slightly higher, but that is what insurance companies are for!) You will have a wicked hole shot swinging the two props. You will also get much smoother shifting with the Bravo drive than the Alpha, and your resale will be better. Hope this helps!
Author:  Wiscosolid [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
melvinvillagemarina wrote:
There is no problem with the Bravo 3 on that boat- just about all of the Horizon 210's that we stock here are single prop drives (we run mainly Volvo Penta) but other than cost, there is really no disadvantage to the Bravo 3. (Impact cost could be slightly higher, but that is what insurance companies are for!) You will have a wicked hole shot swinging the two props. You will also get much smoother shifting with the Bravo drive than the Alpha, and your resale will be better. Hope this helps!


Thanks. I was thinking it would actually hurt resale based on the extra costs of maintenance and replacement parts.
Author:  Walt [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
Weather you are turing a Bravo 3, Alpha, VP, or B1 like I have, a 5.0 will be a POOCH for that boat. I recommend 5.7/350. That's 300hp for a little over 3000 lbs... all in all a very good HP to weight ratio. Less than that, and uh....
Author:  melvinvillagemarina [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
Your only maintenance cost that would outweigh the alpha (or Bravo 1 or Volvo Penta SX drive) would be gearcase oil changes. If you happen to slam a rock- repair costs are more, but as I said before, that's where insurance comes in! As far as the last post, I can tell you from experience that this boat goes pretty good with the 4.3L V6 225HP, but great with the V8. We have stocked a few Signature Series with the 300HP 5.7V8 and it's a rocketship. Nobody ever said there was too much horsepower!!! The 260/270HP 5.0L pulls great out of the hole, and runs mid 50's (according to the speedometer) with a decent sized crew. Good luck with the new boat, it sounds good to me!
Author:  Walt [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
I test drive a 21' Ebbtide with a 5.0/A1. It was a pooch with only me, salesman, and 1/2 gas. Add a B3 leg, and you are just adding drag, and twice as many gears as needed to do the job. I have a friend with a 21' Cobalt and 320 HP Volvo DP. He and I are neck-in-neck on hole shot and top-end when running my combo. We see a few forum members claiming much higher top-end for the same combo I have, however I am only able to hit 50-52 by GPS depending on how I prop it, and still get acceptible hole-shot for water sports and load out.

I inquired before my purchase, and did not see any real advantage to having a dual prop set up in this size boat.

Also, I can't imagine having an SS without CC exhaust. The 5.0 would still sound OK, but a 4.3 in an SS?????

Best of luck on your research.... you can never have too much boat; you can never have too much HP; but you can definately have too much boat for your HP.
Author:  Paul I. [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
The big difference between the 2 drives are, or at least to me.

On the alpha, the raw water impeller is built into the drive. So you need to split the drive to get at it. On the B3, its on the engine. So the boat can remain in the water and its much easier for you to do. Also cheaper if you want the dealer to do it.

The B3 has 2 counter rotating props on it. Which takes out what some boaters call "prop walk". So in docking or slow speeds, the boat will go were ever you point it. Not so on a Alpha.

The Alpha uses a AL prop were the B3 uses a S.S. prop. So the B3 will give you better MPG and better all around performance. BUT the AL prop will bend over fast & easier if you hit something. Were the S.S. prop is harder and send more of the shock into the drive.

If it was me, I would go with the B3!
Author:  Walt [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
Paul I. wrote:
The big difference between the 2 drives are, or at least to me.

On the alpha, the raw water impeller is built into the drive. So you need to split the drive to get at it. On the B3, its on the engine. So the boat can remain in the water and its much easier for you to do. Also cheaper if you want the dealer to do it.

The B3 has 2 counter rotating props on it. Which takes out what some boaters call "prop walk". So in docking or slow speeds, the boat will go were ever you point it. Not so on a Alpha.

The Alpha uses a AL prop were the B3 uses a S.S. prop. So the B3 will give you better MPG and better all around performance. BUT the AL prop will bend over fast & easier if you hit something. Were the S.S. prop is harder and send more of the shock into the drive.

If it was me, I would go with the B3!


Paul,
I respectfully disagree with you on a few of your major points....

The Alpha impeller is much easier to change...but only if trailered! (the only gripe I have about the B1)

For me, I prefer "prop-walk" when docking; it allows me to move the boat side-ways up to the dock. (personal preference)

Al vs SS.... you are allowed, and IMO encouraged to use an SS on Alpha, or B1 drives. We have beat the whole argument to death on that, so I wont go there.

The B3 will give you LOWER MPG and LOWER TOP END, as you are turning twice as much gearing, and have twice as much drag (2 propellers) in the water. As pointed out in my previous, you get about the same hole-shot and top end as a lower pitch 5 blade prop on a B1 compared to a VP DP (and likely similar for B3 with same gear ratio)

From an ease of maint perspective, I recommend the B1 drive... it's rated to something like 600 HP and 100 MPH (alpha is rated to 300 HP), remove the prop to change the drive oil; but the impeller is underneath the engine.... at least Volvo did that part right (front of engine).
Author:  Paul I. [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
Walt wrote:
Paul I. wrote:
The big difference between the 2 drives are, or at least to me.

On the alpha, the raw water impeller is built into the drive. So you need to split the drive to get at it. On the B3, its on the engine. So the boat can remain in the water and its much easier for you to do. Also cheaper if you want the dealer to do it.

The B3 has 2 counter rotating props on it. Which takes out what some boaters call "prop walk". So in docking or slow speeds, the boat will go were ever you point it. Not so on a Alpha.

The Alpha uses a AL prop were the B3 uses a S.S. prop. So the B3 will give you better MPG and better all around performance. BUT the AL prop will bend over fast & easier if you hit something. Were the S.S. prop is harder and send more of the shock into the drive.

If it was me, I would go with the B3!


Paul,
I respectfully disagree with you on a few of your major points....

The Alpha impeller is much easier to change...but only if trailered! (the only gripe I have about the B1)

For me, I prefer "prop-walk" when docking; it allows me to move the boat side-ways up to the dock. (personal preference)

Al vs SS.... you are allowed, and IMO encouraged to use an SS on Alpha, or B1 drives. We have beat the whole argument to death on that, so I wont go there.

The B3 will give you LOWER MPG and LOWER TOP END, as you are turning twice as much gearing, and have twice as much drag (2 propellers) in the water. As pointed out in my previous, you get about the same hole-shot and top end as a lower pitch 5 blade prop on a B1 compared to a VP DP (and likely similar for B3 with same gear ratio)

From an ease of maint perspective, I recommend the B1 drive... it's rated to something like 600 HP and 100 MPH (alpha is rated to 300 HP), remove the prop to change the drive oil; but the impeller is underneath the engine.... at least Volvo did that part right (front of engine).



I respectfully disagree with you, too. (just to make a joke out of it)

I have owned both and if it was between the two, I would pick the B3. You can do the B3 impeller anywhere. It also depends on the boat, meaning how much room is up front. In the engine compartment.

As to the "prop walk", I don't miss it at all. It also depend on what side you dock on and if your in forward or reverse. So an alpha can pull you into the dock or away from it.
Author:  robertkingTN [ Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Potential new H210 owner
Ok I may be new to this forum, and to four winns for that matter, but not to boats. Go with the dual prop! The responsiveness is unmatched especially with multiport fuel injection driving it! Ok, I'll be reasonable because I'm all about a good deal too, if the alpha is that much cheaper and you are willing to "do the dance" around what pitch prop is best for your needs then the answer is YES I do believe that you can find your desired performance with the alpha.

As a sidenote and possibly a selling point, just look at the simple physics of it; the output from the first or primary prop becomes the input for the second prop.... BRILLIANT! It's called technology and if/when the time comes to sell, the buyer is not willing to spend a thousand or two more for that then we will all be here for him on forums just like this to help him throughout his "dance" to figure out what pitch prop is best suited for his needs ;)
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