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 Post subject: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:57 pm 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 14
I just bought a nice 98' horizon 180 with a vp 4.3gl and sx cobra. It got a brand new engine last year.
Today i got it out on the rivier for a good test drive and i noticed 2 things. Maybe you guys dan help me out.

Full throttle the engine does 5200 Rpm. This is to high isnt it? The prop is a SS 14.5 x 20 and the sx cobra ratio is 1.66. At wot speed is 43mph with 2 adults. 4 adults doesnt make much of a difference. The boat seems to pull hard. I dont plan to tow much so i would like a bit more top speed at correct max. Rpm. Do you have any suggestions?

The other thing i noticed is that the engine temp. when doing between idle and approx. 2000rpm gets to 200 degrees and decreases with higher Rpm. Could this be an impeller or thermostat issue? When i turn the boat off the temp gauge stays at 160 degrees. Faulty gauge or is this normal?


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:58 pm
Posts: 1173
Location: Lower Niagara/Lake Ontario USA
I'm not a WOT kinda guy, I'm happy cruising at 25-30 knots, so can't help ya much on the RPM, prop question. However, your temp issue could be T-Stat and/or impeller related. When was the last time either was changed?

Oh, and welcome to the forum! Pics or it didn't happen is the golden rule here.

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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
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Location: Long Island NY
200 is too hot. The engine probably has a 160 stat and they normally run between 160 to 175. If it gets over 180 I would start looking for problems. It can be the impeller, (these need to be replaced regularly) the thermostat (I have found that these don't fail too often) or clogging in the manifolds/risers. If the old impeller is worn excessively or has missing vanes some of them could be blocking the passage in the thermo housing.

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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:15 am 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 14
Thank you, i will post some pics soon. The guy i bought it from said last year a new impelller was placed because the old engine died because An impelller vane blokkage. Well seems like the problem is still there.

I will check the impelller myself. Somebody An idea about the prop?


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 1303
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I'd definately check to see if any of the old impeller has blocked a passage near the thermostat.
Have you inspected the condition of your manifolds/ risers' water galleries?
Your boat with the 4.3GL should have a 14-1/4" X 21p prop, but your SS upgrade with larger hub should be very similar.
You have a max RPM range of 4500.
Stating the obvious here, but you're not cavitating are you?
It could be prop hub slippage.
Does your current tach' have different cylinder settings?
Do you have access to another tachometer?

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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:34 am 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 14
Hi deafwish,

thanks for replying. I will check the impeller and t-stat housing on blockage first. If i cant find anything i will check the manifolds and risers. When i bolt off the risers the water canals are visible?
Im new to this inboard thing so forgive me if i ask the obvious. There is another thing: the temp. gauge needle stays at 160 degrees when i turn the power off. Is this normal or should the needle drop to zero? Maybe its a possebility its faulty.

I dont think im cavitating because there is no pitting on prop surface if thats possible on a SS prop. There is no unusual sound to be heard. How can i determine if there is any cavitation going on?
What do you mean exactly with cilinder settings on current tach? Is it possible to use any kind of tach or is it matched to the engine?

I guess prop hub slippage is a very bad (expensive) thing and not easy to check?

Again forgive me if i ask some stupid questions because inboards are new to me and english is not my native language.


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:34 am 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 14
Hi deafwish,

thanks for replying. I will check the impeller and t-stat housing on blockage first. If i cant find anything i will check the manifolds and risers. When i bolt off the risers the water canals are visible?
Im new to this inboard thing so forgive me if i ask the obvious. There is another thing: the temp. gauge needle stays at 160 degrees when i turn the power off. Is this normal or should the needle drop to zero? Maybe its a possebility its faulty.

I dont think im cavitating because there is no pitting on prop surface if thats possible on a SS prop. There is no unusual sound to be heard. How can i determine if there is any cavitation going on?
What do you mean exactly with cilinder settings on current tach? Is it possible to use any kind of tach or is it matched to the engine?

I guess prop hub slippage is a very bad (expensive) thing and not easy to check?

Again forgive me if i ask some stupid questions because inboards are new to me and english is not my native language.


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:41 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:10 pm
Posts: 2032
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Pino wrote:
Hi deafwish,

thanks for replying. I will check the impeller and t-stat housing on blockage first. If i cant find anything i will check the manifolds and risers. When i bolt off the risers the water canals are visible?
Im new to this inboard thing so forgive me if i ask the obvious. There is another thing: the temp. gauge needle stays at 160 degrees when i turn the power off. Is this normal or should the needle drop to zero? Maybe its a possebility its faulty.

I dont think im cavitating because there is no pitting on prop surface if thats possible on a SS prop. There is no unusual sound to be heard. How can i determine if there is any cavitation going on?
What do you mean exactly with cilinder settings on current tach? Is it possible to use any kind of tach or is it matched to the engine?

I guess prop hub slippage is a very bad (expensive) thing and not easy to check?

Again forgive me if i ask some stupid questions because inboards are new to me and english is not my native language.


He may have put old manifolds back on a new engine. You can tell if the manifolds are passing enough water through them by feeling them with your had during or just after running engine. You should be able to put your hand on the top of the manifold and keep it there even at cruising power (it will feel "hot", but not hot enough to make you pull your hand back). This is true even with a bad thermostat...because regardless of thremostat open or closed, all of the water pumped in goes out through the manifolds. However, if the manifolds are blocked (rusty inside), then your engine will not get enough water to cool properly.

You can check the manifolds by removing the upper half (the elbow), but you must drain the water out first, otherwise the water will spill down into your exhaust valves. There is a drain at the bottom of the manifold for this purpose (and for winterizing)

Gage reads 160 when off: No this does not sound normal, so you may have a bad gauge.

Bad thermostat? Thermostats often last 5 years or more, but they do go bad, and they don't cost much, so at least add one to your spare parts.

Propeller: Your 43mph at 5200rpm sounds like not enough pitch on the propeller. 20 pitch sounds about right, but maybe that prop is not the same as it is marked. It may have been "re-pitched" by a propeller service. See if you can find a prop shop to look at it, or see if you can borrow a prop from a fellow cobra owner or prop shop to see how it does with another prop.

Prop Slippage? If you are accelerating quickly without the engine revving abnormally, then you don't have prop slippage. (prop slippage can sound like a car with a bad clutch). If it does slip, then it needs to be be re-hubbed which costs about $50-60 at a prop shop.

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:03 pm 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 14
I just looked at the impeller, its not broken but 5 Vanes are bend without touching the housing so they cant be effective. Could this cause the overheating at low rpm and cool down at high rpm? Logic tells me it is because at high rpm the impeller is more effective due to higher rpm and centrifugal force on the vanes.

I also checked the tstat housing and a riser and although they are rusty inside they dont seam to be blocked. I wil replace the impeller and give An update.

Thanks so far for your help


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:10 pm
Posts: 2032
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Pino wrote:
I just looked at the impeller, its not broken but 5 Vanes are bend without touching the housing so they cant be effective. Could this cause the overheating at low rpm and cool down at high rpm? Logic tells me it is because at high rpm the impeller is more effective due to higher rpm and centrifugal force on the vanes.

I also checked the tstat housing and a riser and although they are rusty inside they dont seam to be blocked. I wil replace the impeller and give An update.

Thanks so far for your help


Looks like you found the problem. If the impeller vanes are bent without touching the housing, they are doing next to nothing.

You could be cooling more at high rpm because your getting more forced water pressure in from the water intakes on the lower unit. (I am assuming you are cruising on the water at high rpm)

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:32 pm 
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The impeller vanes will bend but should still be touching the housing... If they don't touch I would say that the wrong impeller could have been installed?

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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Location: Austin, TX
I'd probably use a 23p prop.

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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:11 am 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 14
I believe the correct impeller was installed but after sitting dry for the winter season and who nows maybe longer (just purchased the boat) the vanes thouching the removeable cam inside the housing (smaller dia. than the rest of the housing) lost their elasticity and couldnt expand anymore to the larger diameter of the rest of the housing at idle and low RPM, hence the overheating at low RPM. At higher RPM lets say 2500 and above the engine temp came down to normal. This could be explained due to the fact that the higher RPM's provide enough centrifugal force on the impeller vanes to let them tough the housing or close to that. I ordered the parts and i let you know if this was the problem indeed.

Regarding the prop, i fitted the stock 14.5 x 19 aluminium prop to rule out a bad hub in the SS prop. I am able to test this and report back once i replaced the impeller.
A 14.5 x 23 prop seems much to me but if the prop hub on current prop is good, the tacho correct and pulling power excellent than my only conclusion is that the engine must deliver her 190HP and torq pretty well. That wouldnt be a bad thing :-)


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:10 pm
Posts: 2032
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
It would take more than 5 years for the impeller to get that bad from age.. Safe to say it was not changed a year ago!

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings


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 Post subject: Re: 98' Horizon 180
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:36 am 
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Minnow

Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:20 pm
Posts: 14
I would not be surprised!


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