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 Post subject: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:34 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:40 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Raleigh, NC
So, I'm getting everything together to do my first winterization...fogging spray, fuel stabilizer, propylene glycol kit, oil & filter, outdrive lube. I notice my boat has an oil drain hose accessible through the drain plug, which means not having to hassle with a pump? Is that pretty much the norm on boats these days? Yes, I'm pretty green at this stuff :shock:

Thanks,

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Joe
2007 Four Winns H200, MC 4.3mpi
2008 Hurricane GS202 (sold)


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:35 pm 
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Shark

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 141
Some boats have them and others don't. I wouldn't say it's the norm. I've changed oil on boats that have them and I wasn't a big fan. I prefer running the engine 10 - 15 minutes and then pumping the oil out. I also change my oil at the beginning of each season so I start off on fresh oil, not "fresh" oil that's been sitting for 6+ months.

I can't believe the season is already over! :cry:

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Current Boats:
2012 FW H260, 8.2 B3X (DTS) "Ctrl-Alt-Delete"
Previous Boats:
1984 Century 5000, Merc 260 Alpha 1
2012 Yamaha VXR

Kansas City, MO
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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 1303
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi Joe,

Most newer boats will have a drain hose for the crankcase oil, making your life easier!
Ensure that anti-freeze you're using is a waterways safe item, as automotive glycol based coolants are very nasty in our waters! :(

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SOLD - 1997 Four Winns Horizon RS


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5688
Location: Long Island NY
And if you are going to use antifreeze, DO NOT use one of those suck the AF up through the drive kits you can buy from West Marine on a raw water cooled engine. If the thermostat does not open all the way, you will have AF in the manifolds and very little in the engine block/heads. That method can work only if you have closed cooling with a heat exchanger. On a raw water cooled engine you can wind up with a cracked block in the spring because the thermostat did not open and AF did not get in the block/heads and they remained full of water.
The main thing is to DRAIN ALL THE WATER. Block has one drain on each side, you pull off the bottom end of the big hose to the front mounted water pump (that holds a lot of water), each manifold has a drain, and the raw water intake hose has to be drained too. Only after ALL THE WATER IS DRAINED, should you add AF. You drain to prevent freezing, AF is for added corrosion protection. I add it by pouring it in the hoses manually.

After draining, you poke all the drain holes because they can get clogged with rust flakes and not drain. Then I put some OMC gasket sealer on the threads of the plugs and reinstall them. I then reconnect that big hose on the bottom end (water pump end) and disconnect it at the top end (thermo housing end). Next I pour in the disconnected end of that hose about 2 gallons or so of -100 no tox antifreeze with corrosion inhibitors, till I see it come out the thermo housing. Then re-connect that hose.
Next I do the manifolds the same way, fill each one till I hear the no tox AF run out on the ground. Lastly I disconnect the raw water intake hose at the thermo housing and point it down in the bilge to make sure it drains. Then I take a funnel and put it in the hose and fill that hose till AF runs out the water intakes on the outdrive. That will push out any water that did not drain.
That, is how you PROPERLY use antifreeze to winterize.

Of course this is in addition to the motor oil/filter change, outdrive oil change, and you really should remove the drive and inspect the bellows, gimble bearing and u-joints if it has not been done in a while. If you have water in the bellows that sits there all winter you will have a rusted gimble bearing, u joints and a howling rumbling drive train the spring. And for those who never take the drive off, the driveshaft can rust into the coupler and then you are SOL, it may not come off without expensive persuasion ;)

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


Last edited by LouC on Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Shark

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:52 am
Posts: 141
deafwish wrote:
Most newer boats will have a drain hose for the crankcase oil, making your life easier!


Do you think it's a dealer add-on or build option? The 2012 FW's I looked at didn't have it (including the boat I bought), and my parent's new 2012 E6 Crownline didn't have one either. Two different dealers. I was just curious.

_________________
Current Boats:
2012 FW H260, 8.2 B3X (DTS) "Ctrl-Alt-Delete"
Previous Boats:
1984 Century 5000, Merc 260 Alpha 1
2012 Yamaha VXR

Kansas City, MO
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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:31 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:40 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Raleigh, NC
Quote:
The main thing is to DRAIN ALL THE WATER. Block has one drain on each side, you pull off the bottom end of the big hose to the front mounted water pump (that holds a lot of water), each manifold has a drain, and the raw water intake hose has to be drained too.


LouC,

Thank you. Should I then not rely on the single multi point drain feature that I see on this engine? I guess you never see if any of the drain points are clogged?

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Joe
2007 Four Winns H200, MC 4.3mpi
2008 Hurricane GS202 (sold)


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:11 pm 
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Seahorse

Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:40 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Raleigh, NC
Okay, the FAQ on Mercruiser website says..."The drain system on your engine is NOT intended to replace full winterization. It is for extending your boating season by allowing the cooling system to be drained after use if there is a risk of light freezing weather and you will be boating the next day"

That tells me don't ever use it!

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Joe
2007 Four Winns H200, MC 4.3mpi
2008 Hurricane GS202 (sold)


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5688
Location: Long Island NY
You know I've never had a boat with those but I can tell you it would not work on a raw water cooled boat in salt water, the rust flakes you always get, would clog it. In fresh water it MIGHT work, but unless you get about 2 gallons out of the engine and at least a qt or 2 out of each manifold, then all the water did not drain. I would not trust it. These things are just a cheap way to make it easier, but not better. The truth is that all inboard engines, should have full closed cooling. Then all you have to drain is the raw water side of the heat exchanger, hoses and risers. And your engine and manifolds don't rust inside.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:09 pm
Posts: 614
Location: South Jersey
I'd check with your local VP/Merc dealer. Mine said NO MORE FOGGING! It's ruining sensors.

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-Tony
2016 Robalo R200 w/Yahama 200!

Previous boats:
2003 Four Winns 248 Vista - sold
1994 Sunbird Corsair 200 - sold
1980 Checkmate Predictor - sold


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5688
Location: Long Island NY
Sensors, I got no stinkin sensors, I got a points n condenser ignition and a Rochester Quadrajet just like our cars did back in the good ole days....and that's just the way I like it...imagine that, a carb you can actually adjust the way you want...kinda makes you feel like a subversive...EPA can't stop you...nice....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:00 pm 
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230 Mike
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Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 7:59 pm
Posts: 5141
Location: Kansas City, Table Rock Lake
Yeah Lou but they're still gonna gig you on your shower head and toilets!

(Says the guy with a houseful of 3.5 gallon toilets and multiple shower heads in each shower ;-) ;-) )
#SuckitEPA

The oil drain hose is a Merc thing and then only on the 5.7? Not sure but the hose always looked to me like it would take hours to get all the oil out through it.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
Posts: 5688
Location: Long Island NY
Ha ha house was built in '42, have original plumbing lol

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:09 pm
Posts: 614
Location: South Jersey
LouC wrote:
Sensors, I got no stinkin sensors, I got a points n condenser ignition and a Rochester Quadrajet just like our cars did back in the good ole days....and that's just the way I like it...imagine that, a carb you can actually adjust the way you want...kinda makes you feel like a subversive...EPA can't stop you...nice....

I wish! Slowly but surely swapping out ignition with Mallory! Like I ran in my Chevy!

_________________
-Tony
2016 Robalo R200 w/Yahama 200!

Previous boats:
2003 Four Winns 248 Vista - sold
1994 Sunbird Corsair 200 - sold
1980 Checkmate Predictor - sold


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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am
Posts: 296
LouC wrote:
And if you are going to use antifreeze, DO NOT use one of those suck the AF up through the drive kits you can buy from West Marine on a raw water cooled engine. If the thermostat does not open all the way, you will have AF in the manifolds and very little in the engine block/heads. That method can work only if you have closed cooling with a heat exchanger. On a raw water cooled engine you can wind up with a cracked block in the spring because the thermostat did not open and AF did not get in the block/heads and they remained full of water.
The main thing is to DRAIN ALL THE WATER. Block has one drain on each side, you pull off the bottom end of the big hose to the front mounted water pump (that holds a lot of water), each manifold has a drain, and the raw water intake hose has to be drained too. Only after ALL THE WATER IS DRAINED, should you add AF. You drain to prevent freezing, AF is for added corrosion protection. I add it by pouring it in the hoses manually.

After draining, you poke all the drain holes because they can get clogged with rust flakes and not drain. Then I put some OMC gasket sealer on the threads of the plugs and reinstall them. I then reconnect that big hose on the bottom end (water pump end) and disconnect it at the top end (thermo housing end). Next I pour in the disconnected end of that hose about 2 gallons or so of -100 no tox antifreeze with corrosion inhibitors, till I see it come out the thermo housing. Then re-connect that hose.
Next I do the manifolds the same way, fill each one till I hear the no tox AF run out on the ground. Lastly I disconnect the raw water intake hose at the thermo housing and point it down in the bilge to make sure it drains. Then I take a funnel and put it in the hose and fill that hose till AF runs out the water intakes on the outdrive. That will push out any water that did not drain.
That, is how you PROPERLY use antifreeze to winterize.

Of course this is in addition to the motor oil/filter change, outdrive oil change, and you really should remove the drive and inspect the bellows, gimble bearing and u-joints if it has not been done in a while. If you have water in the bellows that sits there all winter you will have a rusted gimble bearing, u joints and a howling rumbling drive train the spring. And for those who never take the drive off, the driveshaft can rust into the coupler and then you are SOL, it may not come off without expensive persuasion ;)




Do a search on Lou and his winterizing techniques, I followed them ( about three times in the end because I kept screwing up and was scared about freezing my engine dead) and its a big help, I will be following it again this year. Though not brave enough to pull the drive off yet. good stuff on this forum and lots of helpful folks.

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Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT
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 Post subject: Re: Winterizing
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:14 pm
Posts: 456
230 Mike wrote:
Yeah Lou but they're still gonna gig you on your shower head and toilets!

(Says the guy with a houseful of 3.5 gallon toilets and multiple shower heads in each shower ;-) ;-) )
#SuckitEPA

The oil drain hose is a Merc thing and then only on the 5.7? Not sure but the hose always looked to me like it would take hours to get all the oil out through it.

My sundowner with a 5.0 had the oil drain hose that was tethered to the drain plug for the bilge. It was a very nice feature that I will miss. I also had the single point manifold drain on mine. That was truly an incredible feature to have. It did completely drain everything. I got every bit of 2+ gallons of water out of it every time I turned the knob. I wish my new boat had that as well......

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2006 Vista 278
First Boat:
2005 Sundowner 205
Columbus, OH


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