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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Tadpole
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Vallejo/Benicia, Calif.
This is my 1st post here... ("Long time listener, first-time caller"). Glad I found this excellent forum!

My wife and I moved to the Benicia, CA area a year ago. I was an avid diver until I totally ruined my ears, and we both love being on the water. With a free public dock to the Delta/SF Bay only 2 miles away (our gateway to the world), I knew a boat was in our future.

So I did a lot of research, started saving my pennies ($5k budget), completed the Calif. Boater's Certification course, and cruized craigslist twice a day for a couple of months. After viewing a dozen-or-so used candidates (most were "rode hard and put away wet", needing too much TLC for me), we found a 1990 Horizon 220 w/Cobra 5.7L for sale by the original owner (who is quite wealthy), near Lake Shasta. He took his family out a couple times a year, and always stored it in a huge 2-story garage (as big as my house!). He babied this boat, and added lots of nice goodies - a Halon fire supression system, electric anchor winch/windlass, fishfinder, depth sounder, bimini & towable covers, etc. The upolstery, carpet, hull, bimini, & towable cover are all nearly perfect - only 140 original hours, and impeccable service records. He was asking $4.5k and we settled on $4.1k.

Image

All-in-all, we did much better with this boat than I'd expected given our meager price-range.
But no deal is perfect -- in his case, the original painted-steel FW tandem trailer is the problem.

The prev. owner boated in the brackish Delta for a couple of seasons before he moved to Shasta, after-which it was fresh-water only. But those trailer-dunks in the brackish Delta water started the inevitable rusting process, which progressed over the following years. At this point there are areas of deep rust on the cross-beams and other critical spots. The steel is 'hella thick so it is not very easy for me to determine the actual structural integrity. All feels solid at-rest, but I doubt we'd have much-if-any warning-signs on the road before a disaster might strike.

After the purchase, we towed it back from Shasta just fine (4 hr drive @ 50mph) during a huge rain/wind storm. 'Probably not a wise move, but it was certainly more stress on the trailer than I'll ever risk again. Since then, I've done one 4-mile round-trip to the local dock for our maiden voyage -- but bad freeway-nightmares have been interrupting my sleep, so she's grounded while I work this out.

Thus my challenge - to find a safe and suitable (and hopefully low-cost) trailer solution. I'd appreciate any comments/advice from this group of 'sages. Here's my thoughts;

1) Initially I'd considered having the trailer repaired, (rusted crossbeams replaced, completely sandblasted and repainted), to maybe add another 5-10 years before the rust gets scarey again. But I'm not sure if that is even possible, and it would have to be significantly less cost than a replacement to make sense ('may also need new brakes, hubs, axles, so that is a big-if).

2) Save my pennies to buy a new aluminum tandem trailer.
Less saltwater worries and the reduced weight would be vey nice for towing.
My main concern here is how well my FW would be supported. I've been reading about the importance of properly positioned bunks, and FW trailer manual makes a point of describing how their trailer bunks are optimally positioned for the exact model of my boat to prevent hull distortion.
Even after a lot of Googling, I'm not finding much specific info about bunk positioning issues on new after-market boat trailers, even on the manuf. websites. Does one need to buy a 'custom-built' trailer for optimally-positioned bunks? If so, what criteria does the manuf. use for that (i don't see any mention of specific models, only boat length and weight). What about "fully adjustable" models like EZ Loader (held together with bolts, not welds)? Or is this a non-issue, and we'll be fine with whatever 'standard' bunk positioning is provided?

Any brand/dealer to consider are very welcome, especially for availability-in/delivery-to the SF Bay area.

3) Save a few less pennies and try to find a used aluminum tandem trailer.
So far, these seem to be few-and-far-between in our area, and are still fairly pricey for used. And I have even more concerns about proper bunk positioning and support of my boat with a used trailer, if that is a legit. concern.

4) Or, buy a new gavanized steel trailer. I'm not sure that the price difference from aluminum is really worth the extra weight, and I have the same concerns about bunk positioning. If I must go 'new', would there be any significant advantage to galv. vs. alum. other than price?

Well, I did not expect my first post to be such a Novella -- I hope it isn't too tedious to read and I look forward to any thoughts/suggestions (or even a gentle dope-slap or two ;o)

Cheers, and 'glad to be aboard!

--RF

_________________
"Jazz is not dead -- it just smells funny." --FZ

1990 Horizon 220 Cobra 5.7L
Four Winns Fw220 trailer ("The Rustbucket")


Last edited by rickeyFitts on Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:51 pm 
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Starfish

Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:27 am
Posts: 53
Location: Melbourne, FL
Okay, help me I've fallen out of my chair and I can't get up.... This is a BOATING forum and you MUST be missing a zero or two in all your figures, :lol: Those are REPAIR figures, not PURCHASE prices!

Seriously, congrats on the purchase & welcome to the forum. Lots of good people here who will offer worthy advice.

From what limited amount I know of trailers, I would encourage you to go with galvanized versus fixing the current rusted, old and scary one. Good luck & enjoy the new boat. You are my new financial inspiration.

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2008 SeaDoo Speedster 200 "Caliente"
1994 Larson Cabrio 280 "Liquid Asset"- Sold


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
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Location: Long Island NY
I'd go galvanized, I have a 1994 Load Rite used in salt and the frame is still not rusted out yet. Its a single axle roller, I added more rollers so it has 24 and that supports the hull pretty well. In my location bunk trailers are difficult to use because of the ramps and the tidal swings in water depth. If you have easy ramps and no tides to worry about you can go with a bunk, they can be configured just like the original FW trailer. I would not spend a dime on a painted steel trailer. Aluminum may cost more but the weight savings might be worth it. What are you towing with?

BTW, if that is a dog clutch Cobra (86-93 model years) I have a lot of experience with them, any questions ask away....The cone clutch models I don't know much about....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Tadpole
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Vallejo/Benicia, Calif.
Hi Starfish, thank you for the warm welcome 'aboard.

I agree that the numbers are pretty amazing and baffling in this wide world of boating -- I found the original invoice for the boat & trailer amongst the paperwork and receipts that the original owner provided:

$28,291 plus tax, in 1991 dollars! Too rich for my blood.
But a 70% discount for 140 hours of light use, (at least that's how I think of it) put it right in my price-range, and I can't really complain about needing to spend another $2-4k to get properly trailer'ed (or $600 - $1200 if I can somehow swing another 70% deal... ;o)

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"Jazz is not dead -- it just smells funny." --FZ

1990 Horizon 220 Cobra 5.7L
Four Winns Fw220 trailer ("The Rustbucket")


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:21 pm 
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Tadpole
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Vallejo/Benicia, Calif.
LouC wrote:
I'd go galvanized, I have a 1994 Load Rite used in salt and the frame is still not rusted out yet. Its a single axle roller, I added more rollers so it has 24 and that supports the hull pretty well. In my location bunk trailers are difficult to use because of the ramps and the tidal swings in water depth. If you have easy ramps and no tides to worry about you can go with a bunk, they can be configured just like the original FW trailer. I would not spend a dime on a painted steel trailer. Aluminum may cost more but the weight savings might be worth it. What are you towing with?

BTW, if that is a dog clutch Cobra (86-93 model years) I have a lot of experience with them, any questions ask away....The cone clutch models I don't know much about....


Hi Lou, yes, the more I read, it sounds like the weight advantages of alum. may be a bit overstated -- although alum. is lighter than steel, more if it is required to provide the same strength as steel. So it looks like I'll go with galvanized unless I find a great deal on alum.

We didn't have any problems with the bunks on our maiden voyage last weekend, but I'll need to consider extra rollers vs. bunks in my search -- thanks for that info.

(In any case, I have decided that the only money I'll spend on my current pile of #%&* (iron-oxide) will be to have it towed away if I can't sell it or give it away for scrap or parts).

BTW, My tow vehicle is a 2012 Nissan Frontier SV with a 4.0L V6 and towing package, rated for 6505 lbs. towing capacity. The boat and current trailer weigh in at 5510 lbs. fully-loaded and 40 gal. of gas in the 65 gal. tank. It towed quite comfortably on the 4-hour freeway trip home after we bought her, even in the intense wind and rain. But the little truck certainly works harder under the load - our normal 23mpg dropped to around 12mpg, so I'm glad our public dock is only 2 miles away!

At this stage, I don't know a 'dog' from a 'cone' (clutch, that is), but I'm sure I'll eventually have questions, and I'll remember your offer -- thanks, and I look forward to the time when I'll have enough knowledge to contribute as well.

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"Jazz is not dead -- it just smells funny." --FZ

1990 Horizon 220 Cobra 5.7L
Four Winns Fw220 trailer ("The Rustbucket")


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:43 am 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 8:22 pm
Posts: 274
Location: New Carlisle, Ohio
Welcome aboard! I have the same boat as you although mine has the 4.3 in it. I also had the same issue with the trailer you have. The box frame wagon is good for rusting from the inside so you wont see how bad it is. I know the flex mine had was scary, and it kept me up at night with nightmares until I replaced it. I replaced mine with a used I-beam Magnum and set it up for my boat, and sold the old one on Craigslist for $300.

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1990 Four Winns Horizon 200
2005 GMC Sierra


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:01 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:58 pm
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Location: Lower Niagara/Lake Ontario USA
rickeyFitts wrote:
BTW, My tow vehicle is a 2012 Nissan Frontier SV with a 4.0L V6 and towing package, rated for 6505 lbs. towing capacity.

Haa, I got the (almost) same truck. Pulls my SD like a dream. Oh, and Welcome! Always like seeing 90's vintage FW's join up. Lets see some pics!!

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1996 205 Sundowner DLX
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Tow Veh: 2012 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:34 pm
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Location: Orange County, CA
When we bought our boat in August 2012, our 2005 Four Winns painted trailer was junk even though it was only 7 years old........


I bought the boat knowing I would replace the trailer rather than fix it.......Anything would be an improvement over the original painted trailer.......Galvanized or Aluminum..........

After talking to several trailer companies and comparing costs.........the aluminum trailer was superior in all aspects.......and in the grand scheme of things it wasn't that much more expensive......under $1000...........

Below is my 2013 custom aluminum bunk trailer.........The dealer dimensioned my boat and the trailer was built exactly to it's hull.......it fits perfectly........much better than the FW trailer.......the towability and braking is far better than the original trailer........

My advice is, if you are going to be towing any distances.......buy a good trailer and enjoy the drive......


BTW............I sold that piece of Junk trailer for $1000 on Craigslist....... :mrgreen:


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2005 Four Winns Funship 214 VP 5.7/Duo Prop


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
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Location: Long Island NY
That is a beautiful trailer....perfect for salt water....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:29 pm 
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I think Ric has one for you...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am
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JohnnyMarlin wrote:
When we bought our boat in August 2012, our 2005 Four Winns painted trailer was junk even though it was only 7 years old........


I bought the boat knowing I would replace the trailer rather than fix it.......Anything would be an improvement over the original painted trailer.......Galvanized or Aluminum..........

After talking to several trailer companies and comparing costs.........the aluminum trailer was superior in all aspects.......and in the grand scheme of things it wasn't that much more expensive......under $1000...........

Below is my 2013 custom aluminum bunk trailer.........The dealer dimensioned my boat and the trailer was built exactly to it's hull.......it fits perfectly........much better than the FW trailer.......the towability and braking is far better than the original trailer........

My advice is, if you are going to be towing any distances.......buy a good trailer and enjoy the drive......


BTW............I sold that piece of Junk trailer for $1000 on Craigslist....... :mrgreen:


Image




How much was that trailer? did you say $1000?

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Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT
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untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY
Gotta be more like $3000 or more....

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:34 pm
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Location: Orange County, CA
jontmiller.......I paid $5500 for that trailer in the picture......it is a 2013 custom aluminum and I took delivery of it right about Thanksgiving week of 2012.....


I sold my 2005 Four Winns (rusty piece of junk) for $1000 on Craigslist.......I started out at $1300 and told myself that NO OFFER would be refused......

This new aluminum trailer tows like a dream.......

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2005 Four Winns Funship 214 VP 5.7/Duo Prop


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:26 pm 
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Congrats and post pics. I too would go galvanized given your intended use. Aluminum is the Cadillac for sure, but galvanized is a nice Buick. The painted steel is the Pinto model.

I would be scared to dunk my steel painted trailer in salt one time.

If you can find a nice used galvanized model, you can take in to have the bunks setup for your boat. Just get one long enough to have bunk support to the transem....measure from bow hook of boat to transem and compare to bow support to end of bunk to match length. The bow support can usually be adjusted some.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:08 pm 
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Minnow

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:40 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Central Fl
my first post/reply also. Just bought today 2002 210 Horizon 5.0GL not a whole lot more then you paid , so congrats on your buy.

Any advise for first time i/o owner from anyone, I have always been a ob user / owner.

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