www.iFourWinns.com

Hello guys as the title says I'm looking at buying a 1989 horizon 200 it is powered by the 4.3 I believe OMC and I was just wondering what I should be looking at I'm going to test drive the boat on Friday I'm really excited I really want to four winns boat I've been driving a 1984 StarCraft for sometime now and I finally saved up some money to buy a new boat specifically a Fw. The appeal to this boat is how clean it is, it looks brand new inside and the hull is fresh paint on bottom and the seller says it runs great. My concern is the OMC outdrive and engine because I've heard bad things about it. He's asking 4000 for the boat. Is this a decent price? I'm going to use the boat to ski, wakeboard, tube, cruise, and clean. While I test drive it, what should I be look, listening, feeling for to make sure it's a sound boat?
I hope to enter into this FW community by the end of this week! Going with money in pocket, but want to make sure the price is right and it runs well.

Thanks guys and gurus,

Kevin

seems like a lot for a 25 year old boat....I paid $5000 for a 98 a few years ago.


Can't comment on the rest but other smarter people will. Good Luck

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

I agree. Is there anything comparable on craigslist or someplace else you can compare prices for that age.

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2014 Four Winns H180 RS
14' 70's Lund

Kelly Blue Book has book values for boats. You can also call your bank or credit union to ask what they show for a loan value (even though you are not financing).

A boat that age could have a value anywhere between 50cents and $4000 depending on condition. $4000 sounds like the very high end to me, but if everything is in very-good condition, then it could be worth it. The Horizon 200 is a great size: Roomier and better wave handling than the 17-18 footers, but still very easy to trailer, dock, etc.

The problem is that a 1989 boat is likely to have rotten wood in the flooring and stringers, and possibly even the transom. At that vintage, having good wood structure is the exception not the rule. Rebuilding the floor and stringers is about a $2500 project (or $1000 plus your labor if you do-it-yourself).

Regarding the OMC cobra: I had an '87 for over a decade and loved it. That's what led me to stick with Volvo Penta on my next boat (same basic design). The OMC "King Cobra" is the model that is hard to get parts for, but I don't think they ever put a King Cobra on a 4.3L engine. Standard Cobra has most all parts available from aftermarket companies such as Sierra and GLM. "LouC" has tons of posts here on his OMC Cobra.

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

That boat's a year newer than mine, I can say its a good running safe boat, the hull is actually bigger than the later 200s which were 19'8" whereas these were 20'9" long, with a 21* deadrise at the stern. However, if it has been stored outside and in a damp climate, the deck could be all rotted and this could have spread to the stringers. My boat had this problem and I spent the summer of 2006 and spring of 2007 fixing this.
Next, the OMC Cobra drive system is good when its been maintained properly by someone who understands how the shift system works. Its not that its so complex but its different than what most marine mechanics is used to which is the Merc Alpha. Most parts are out there either from BRP or aftermarket, but people who know how to set up the somewhat tricky shift system are not so common. I have the 3 special OMC tools, I can set one up in about 1-2 hrs, but a lot of mechanics won't touch them. So if the boat has none or little rot, if the interior is in good shape (had to re-do this as well) and the mechanicals check out, it could be a good buy but you will still be dealing with a lack of trained techs to work on it and some parts (like the one piece exhaust manifolds) are no longer made.
As much as I like this boat I'd advise most people who are not backyard mechanics like me to save up for a much newer boat, that has a drive system supported on both the dealer and aftermarket level.

If you are seriously considering this boat, have the structure checked very carefully for rot (deck, transom, engine mount stringers, etc). They have a hatch over the gas tank you can lift up. If the owner will let you do that it will tell you a lot. If you find the supports for the gas tank are solid and you can see the tops of main stringers in there, and they are good, then look at the inside of the ski locker. Look up under the bottom of the plywood panels with a flashlight and a mirror to see if the ply there is rotted. Go in the engine compartment, look at the engine mount stringers where the engine mounts are lag bolted to them. If there are any cracks, no good. Look at the fiberglass inner transom behind the aluminum transom inner mounting plate. Look for dark areas on the plywood (if its not gel coated you can see easily) that signifies rot. Look also at the fiberglass around the outer transom mount, are there cracks in the gelcoat. Grab the end of the outdrive and see if you can flex it up and down. There might be a bit of play in the trim rams but the transom should be solid as a rock.
Grab the seats and see if you can flex them look at the deck does it flex when you do that? Often the deck starts rotting where any holes were drilled to mount seats.

OK after all this find out if you have a few independent marine mechanics who work on OMC Cobras.
In order for this to not be a bad idea, all this has to fall into place....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks for all the replies. I am now significantly scared haha, but at least I know what to look for. I hope it's either very bad or very good. He did say that the bilge pump needs replaced. This makes me think the stringers might be wrecked. I did check with a local marine mechanic and he told me that he has worked on omc and mercruisers of most years and there is also a local high school class that works on boats for just parts. This class is supervised by real mechanics and my neighbor who has had work done there said that they prefer oddities in order to teach the kids things outside the norm. Getting a good view of the stringers from the ski locker and around gas tank might be an issue for the seller- he has been pushing the sale on me, which I've mostly just ignored the pressure, saying that he doesn't want to run in unless I'm serious and are ready to buy. Makes me feel like something is wrong and he wants it gone fast. Oh well there will always be another boat if this one doesn't work out. Scared stiff and don't want to buy a project. Who else suggests saving for a newer boat?

Tell him if YOU want to take him seriously he needs to meet your conditions for inspection. Trust me no one is beating a path to buy a 27 year old boat with an OMC drive!!!!

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Very true.

I would suggest at least going newer to a 1996-2000 Horizon 200. In these years, a fiberglass shell floor was optional, so you want the one with a fiberglass floor (snap in carpet), but not the wood floor with glue in carpet.

Like jontmiller said above, he found a 1998 with 4.3 Volvo Penta for $5000 (and that was 8 years ago). (edit: 3 years ago)
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9927&start=15
however, his boat had the glue in carpet, which he had to do repairs on later:
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13568

(jon, I hope you don't mind me pointing out these links, but it looks very applicable to this buyer)

Ray

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Great point! The seller should be kissing your ass, not giving you a hard time.

_________________
2014 Four Winns H180 RS
14' 70's Lund

Ray no sweat bringing up my posts.....I only posted to this thread as I felt I had something to offer from my original experience.

EXCEPT....its only been 3 years since I picked up the boat....I thought holy crap....I've had this thing 8 years ha ha

I tell my friends who don't know boats its a Craigslist special....I got it hoping for the best and expecting the worst and luckily was in a financial position that if the motor blew up or the thing sank within the first year the kids still go to college. That said I got lucky, mechanically the boat has been great, aside from my tinkering (thanks to this site) nothing significant has gone wrong, the floor had some soft spots from day 1 that I was aware about and honestly assumed were worse than I thought (this was a 2 year boat in my head) After 2 solid seasons of fun I put some dollars into the machine, new cover (2 piece OEM covers are the reason for most of the floor issues according to the guy who did my floor) and a new floor. I told the shop this was a 5 year boat and just didn't want to put my foot through the floor, wasn't concerned about cosmetics so much etc. After that I re-ran some electrical and put the new gauge package in.

The boat has 25 hours on it this summer, which isn't a lot but its been running great, the floor looks and feels brand new, and I find myself wondering if there is a cheaper way to re-do the rest of the interior. I really want a bolster seats and most of the backing to the existing seats is rotted to the point where am afraid to tighten any screws, a few have rips and the stitching is pulling out on a bunch of it....

Long post to say keep looking......While I KNEW all the recommendations from this group of gentleman when I took this boat for a test ride, realistically I got lucky. Yea the oil was clean it shifted and started, but it could have been a whole lot worse and reading a few of the nightmare threads this season reinforces my feelings....buy smart and take it for a ride in actual water, or be willing to cut your losses and find someone else to take the boat if it turns out to be a lemon



https://flic.kr/s/aHsk2cU1Jp

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjBEUTR5

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjZ8Z6wT

https://flic.kr/s/aHskbCL68S

the above are WAY too many photos of the fun with the boat...click at own risk as they are boring to most who aren't involved but a good way to share the photos...I share as the reason why I enjoy my Craigslist special so much.

_________________
Jon Miller
1998 four Winns Horizon H200
Volvo Penta 4.3 GL
Newtown, CT

untitled-545 by millerjont, on Flickr

Oops. I read that you bought your boat Sep 07. I failed to continue to read that it was Sep 07, 2012

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings