www.iFourWinns.com

When I ordered my boat, I opted out of the "premium" audio package which includes tweeters, amp, and sub installed. I figured I could better spend that investment in other areas.

THe 2008's actually come with a decent enough Sony marine head unit... satellite radio... I had a remote installed on the passenger side... and it all fits under the Four Winns 2 year warranty.

Being the young'n that I am about 30... The stereo still leaves me wanting more ( I know this from when I took delivery of the boat). I've been battling around with what's a good budget... what I am looking to get out of it... etc. People on various forums seem to love the Polk MOMO stuff... reasonably priced and good performance. Clarion... although popular... doesn't have the greatest reputation across boating forums... So, I'm still left hanging. I've been a long time fan of JL Audio as I've used them in several cars over the last 15 years - and they seem to have a great reputation.

I stopped in at a local car audio shop close to offices... It's called Benchmark Motoring. They are the Unique Whips/West Coast Customs of the Pacific Northwest (http://www.benchmarkmotoring.com). Of course, they are close to the Microsoft campus where I work (thanks Bill) - so they have plenty of high end customers. They regularly do boat audio/video work and custom projects for people. They happen to be a dealer of JL Audio as well - but as usual -their prices are un-frickin-believably high.

The general thing that everyone I've talked to about boat audio agrees on... JL Audio makes great marine speakers. Spendy... but great. I've been eyeing a set of 7.7 inch speakers with tweeters to replace the 4 stock 6.5 inch sony units... Apparently, they sound incredible. At 400 bucks a pair - they better. I have, however, found a much better deal on these through another forum member that I've run into. So I'm looking closer to 500 for 2 sets. Not so bad. The other think I like about the JL's is that they are white and not silver/black or anything else.

Amplifiers... JL Audio makes a nice littke 6 channel - something like 50 watts X 4 and then a 150 X 1 for the sub. Not so bad. Price is around 400 or so.... However, with a classic MOSFET style amp you do have to deal with more heat issues. When I was at Benchmark, they showed me a new line of Alpine Amps... called the PDX line. THey are all digital. Now, I don't know about everyone else, but when I hear the word "digital" - I start to grunt like Tim the Tool Man Taylor... Maybe it's the nerd in me. ooohhhh I say. They make a 100X4 that's all digitial... and then a 600X1 for the sub. I say, holy c*ap - how many batteries do I have to run? 1 deep cycle was the answer. Heck, I've got 2 - that gives me a back up! These amps run about 750 each in Benchmark dollars, but I saw them on Crutchfield for around 400-500 each... But they say that if paired with the JL's... the sound would be amazing at all levels of volume...

Lastly... the subwoofer... they highly recommend an enclosure versus an infinite baffle sub. The guys at benchmark are more than happy to make me a custom fiberglass enclosure (yeah right) --my other option is to do the infinite baffle route in the same location that Four Winns puts the upgraded version. I suppose I could enclose that area... put a little fiberglass in there... and seal it up. That's definitely an option.

I snagged a business card and ran like hell... Holy jeez I'd be looking at a cool 5g's real quick. Sales guy used the "You didn't buy a bayliner, why would you put bayliner equipment in there". Good argument, tough sell.

At the end of the day... I'm left with a couple questions...

1) given speaker placement, think I'll run into any issues with the 7.7'' speakers in the stock locations? I don't think I would in the front... in the back I think there may be a grab handle that hits the speaker (I need to look more). I'm all for the JL's... especially if I can get both sets for 500... Polk MOMO's would be 300-400 for 2 sets anyway, so the investment difference isn't that great.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/ ... CS&tp=3384


2) Amps... digital with no head and small size for 1 grand... or a single JL with much lower power for 400... If I go digital, I also have to do an inclosure for the sub. I'd blow up an I/B sub with 600 watts.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/ ... PDX&tp=115
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/ ... PDX&tp=115

3) Sub... infinite baffle (subject to rattles)... or fiberglass enclosed in the stock location? I like the JL sub - but I also get a kick out of the square looking Kicker Solobaric L7.... all of these would be 10'' versions.
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/ ... =2066S10L7


Budget... if I DIY it (which I like to think that I'm more than capable of)... I'm probably 2 grand out the door... wires, cables, parts, peices. If I have it done - It's probably closer to 3k... unless I pay the Benchmark premium and it jumps to 5.

hmmmm, what to do!

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

I'll just throw out my usual advice on this - remember that it's a boat, one of the worst acoustical chambers ever devised by mankind, which can only be improved upon so much regardless of what you put in it - before laying out too much cash. 'Course, I'm almost 46, so take that for what it's worth .

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I's start with a sealed enclosure sub and amp on the stock stereo and speakers. I'm personally not a big fan of IB subwoofer installs. The JL in a sealed enclosure would be the way I would go. Also, I wouldn't hesitate on the Alpine amp. I have had plenty of Alpine equipement over the years, and it has never disapointed me. I haven't heard any of the new PDX amps yet, but I don't doubt they would work well for you.

So, if you have the sub in and the bottom end is doin' what it needs for ya, but you are not happy with the mids and highs (now that you have crossed them out, with the sub takin' care of all the bass ), then you can concentrate on replacing the factory speaker units. I don't think I would change from 6.5 inch to 7.7 inch units; I just don't see any need if you are not driving any bass to them. I would upgrade to 6.5 inch component speakers instead (I am just assuming that the factory units are not component speakers). Depending on the power requirements of the speakers, you may or may not need to throw an amp into the mix for the new component speakers.

And yeah, I would tackle this all myself... It saves ya some dough, and its alot of fun!

_________________
2009 H180 w/3.0 Merc
Homebuilt Minimax Hydro
2011 Zodiac Cadet 310

So cougar, what did you decide on?

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2008 H210SS VP 5.7 Gi/SX
2011 Ford F150 FX4 EB

Funny should mention... I was going to resurrect this thread as I got going on my stereo adventures.

After alot of back and forth debate... and my wife reminding me of my feelings on this H240... "remember, you said you only want this boat for a couple of seasons, then we'll probably go biggeragain"... I had to acknowledge and scale back a bit.

So...

I have 2 sets of the JL M770-CCX coax speakers on order... should arrive this week. Same price as the separates and I didn't really want to cut another hole in the boat if I could just get it all built into 1. These are the 7.7 inch versions, so I will have to enlarge the stock openings a bit...


I went with the single JL 10'' that I will mount in the same location as the one that gets mounted in the "premium" stereo upgrade... I REALLY wanted to do a fiberglass enclosure, but you just won't ever get your money's worth... and my wife kept reminding me that it's a boat. This sub gets awesome reviews - so I'll make sure there's no rattles and probably use a little dynamat to thicken and deaden things a bit. That should be enough.



Finally... I'll amp everything up with a 6 channel JL Audio marine m6450 amp. It'll push about 75-100rms to each speaker and about 150rms to the sub. I ordered a bass control remote and stainless knob to mount in the dash to vary the sub strength.



I'll be wiring everything using Stinger Marine RCA's and probably their Pro-Class speaker and power wiring... Nothing crazy there. I found a site online -- http://www.hifisoundconnection.com that has pretty good deals on the stuff.

I really thought hard about having a shop do everything or me... but when I'm at 1100 bucks for everything - I can't help but realize that I am more than capable of putting in this kick-butt upgrade myself. I've done cars and a couple other boats without issue before... this is just another one.

I'll be taking pictures as I go...and will probably post on this thread. Although, it'll probably be March before I get going on things because of the weather.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Gosh I'm 62 so I'm really way out of it. I use a $29 Mini Boom Box. It uses 6 C size Flashlight batteries that I buy at the dollar store. I found out early that people with Boats and the Big Booming radios are not received to well on inland lakes by fellow boaters or property owners. Guess they just don't appreciate that kaboom, kaboom, Kaboom Racket. They seem to prefer quiet.
Of course my little $29 Boom Box will blast you out pretty good too if I turn the volume up unless of course I'm running WOT.
.

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Chuck
"OWN-IT"

Fortunately.... where I spend most of my time boating.... Whichever direction I went with the stereo would stay on the "mild" side of the scale "mild --> wild".

The boats that seem to produce the most outbound sound waves are the wakeboard tower speakers...

To each their own. People who fancy their million dollar homes on a public lake should be used to it.

Kind of like how people hated jet skiis and watercraft because of the high pitch engine whine... In Washington, rich people spent millions trying to ban personal watercraft from their lakes. They lost. Public is public.

I consider myself a very respectable boater... at night when noise is at a low on the lake - you don't jack up the stereo. sound does travel fast across the water. Having lived on large lakes, I have heard some interesting conversations at night from people hanging out on docks... it's quite amazing.

During the day when there is noise everywhere.... they just need to get over it.

Besides, the high pitch whine of the jet skiis will drown out whatever small stereo sound I may produce.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Man, that's gonna be a sweet set up and I'd love to see pic's of the process and the finished product. I've always heard good things about JL, but never owned any of their stuff. As far as loud music goes, I think it's like you said as long as your respectful of others on the lake it's not a problem. It's the ones that pull up to the ramp or when your hanging out in a cove with their stuff blasting that can be rather anoying. Good luck with the install!

_________________
2008 H210SS VP 5.7 Gi/SX
2011 Ford F150 FX4 EB

The UPS man made a delivery to my house! Now - if the weather would turn to spring, I could rip open the shrink wrap and get this all installed!

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Cougar- can you do me a favor and measure the diameter of those speaker grills? I want to see how much bigger they will be than my stock 6.5's. Also, be sure to take pics of you enlarging the speaker holes.

_________________
Former owner of:
1996 Four Winns Horizon 200 5.8L VP
2006 Four Winns Horizon 260 8.1L VP
2007 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer

Current boat
2004 Sea Ray 290 Sun Sport Twin 350 Mags

The outside diameter of the speakers are 7.7 inches.

Enlarging the holes are going to be an interesting task... I'll probably use a ROTOZIP if there is enough clearance around cushions in the front and grab handles and such in the rear.

_________________

2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Ok... The install date is set... it'll be the last weekend in March (the 29th) - as that is when I will be pulling the shrink wrap off the boat...

Barring any weather issues of course.

Tonight I just ordered up all the other "stuff" for wiring. Went with all Stinger. I'm just going to stick with higher end car audio gear... I can't believe I'm running 4 guage to an amp that puts out less than 500 watts rms... but that's what JL Audio wants. 2 sets of RCA's... all new Stinger Pro Series 16 guage speaker cable... miscellanous connectors... I will be running new power and ground direct from a battery - and this will also give me the opportunity for future expansion if needed for other things besides audio.

I'm looking forward to the project! I just want to have everything lined up and ready to go...

Any recommendations as to what type stainless screws would be best for fiberglass? Is standard coarse thread sufficient?

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Pretty much, IMO. If you're drilling holes in your gel coated liner, it's a good idea to relieve the gel coat around the holes to help prevent cracking. For any kind of countersinking I use Weldon 82 degree countersinks. They're the bombdiggity in wood, aluminum, plastic, fiberglass, etc. They sell them singly and in a 5-piece set (which I highly recommend). There are imitations from Grizzly and others, but Weldon is the original developer of this type of countersink, and they work amazingly well.

http://www.jlindustrial.com/WEC-99650A/ ... oduct.html

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Cougar- Make sure you have 3 sets of RCA's total. Front, rear and sub. If your head unit is like my Clarion then you will have outputs for the sub too.

_________________
Former owner of:
1996 Four Winns Horizon 200 5.8L VP
2006 Four Winns Horizon 260 8.1L VP
2007 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer

Current boat
2004 Sea Ray 290 Sun Sport Twin 350 Mags

Thanks for the info Mike...

So... what my speaker mounting plan was to find a set of stainless (medium coarse thread) screws that aren't super long and will fit the mounting my speakers. I will mark the holes and start with a smaller pilot hole. I would then drill a slightly larger hole roughly equivalent to the size of the core shank (did I say that right) screw. Because there is no countersinging of the screws - I hadn't thought about that. I was just going to go with that. Sealing the hole didn't make much sense to me because the coarse thread would just eat that up. I had thought about back gluing or making some "rings" of wood or starboard to put on the backside if I run into any problems.

New question -- I have heard that when drilling into fiberglass, you should drill in the reverse direction? Is that correct, or did I get some bad info? Something about how it can prevent spider cracking?

My biggest concern was if I needed any sort of special fastener to screw the speaker down to the fiberglass. I think the short answer is no. Any good quality stainless screw with a medium-coarse thread would work.


Cincy -- my boat has the Sony setup... There is no sub output. I only ordered 2 sets. Also - the JL amp understands that and will feed the sub signal from all of the four channels if I don't use a direct input -- I made sure of that.

I was thinking about getting some sound deadener like dynamat to put behind the sub... Once I get the hole opened up, I'll be checking out what's in that side of the boat -- and secure anything that may flap around. I may spray in some sound deadener or undercoating along with some dynamat... We'll see how it all shapes up.

I also need to find a place on the dash to mount the remote bass control knob. Shouldn't be too tough.

_________________

2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA