www.iFourWinns.com

I think I need to replace my speakers all the way around on my Horizon 210. Also looking to get 2 tower speakers, an amp, and a sub...can anyone point me in the right direction for where to get all this stuff? Also I think I'm going to put it together and install it myself so I'd need to know what wires and other stuff I might need....

The marine environment can be pretty harsh on speakers and electrical equipment. You will certainly want to go with equipment designed for a marine environment in all exposed areas. Clarion, Sony, Polk Audio, JL Audio all make some marine grade stereo equipment. Much can be found online at pretty good discounts.

Wiring is another area where the marine environment poses some challenges. In general, marine wiring has higher temperature ratings than automotive or household wiring, (typically 105c). Not only does the wiring have to handle the heat generated by the load, but heat from the surrounding area (like in an engine room) must be factored in. The USCG has published specifications for wiring that covers things like gauge requirements, heat ratings, connections, fusing, tie down, and more. While designed for boat manufacturers, it is an easy read and very helpful. It can be found here:
http://www.boatingabc.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/266617/BoatBuilder_s_Handbook_On_Line.html#Post266617

These guys are a great online supplier of marine wiring: http://www.genuinedealz.com

As additional amps are added, power demands go up. Be sure and take a look at the size of your alternator, and the demands placed on your battery. Many add a second battery with switch to isolate the starting battery from 'house' systems, and provide more listening time while 'on the hook'. Many isolators or battery combiners also provide for automatic charging of both batteries from a single alternator. Lots of threads available on adding a second battery - my advise would be to start reading back posts, and ask questions.

_________________
2007 Horizon 200
4.3L GXi/ SX 225 HP

MGOakly,

Welcome to the site, I would recommend reading the past posts and asking questions as well. There are some of these guys that should be working at NASA after the stuff they add to their boat and can definately help you. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of them.....but they are here.

_________________
2008 Four Winns 224 Funship 5.0 GXI/DP Black w/ Tower
2007 GMC Crew Cab Short Bed / Bose Ed.
2007 Fourwinns H180 (SOLD)

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people"

Yep, search back and you will see some awesome installs. Definitely use marine speakers. You can get away with non-marine amps if you have a location to store it that would be essentially like a trunk, i.e., dry. Ebay has good deals but be wary of not getting a manufacturers warranty. Local audio shops are great and may come very close to matching what you get on line if you ask. Plus, they can offer tech support which is bound to be needed.

My recommedation is to get a dedicated subwoofer amp.

_________________
Former owner of:
1996 Four Winns Horizon 200 5.8L VP
2006 Four Winns Horizon 260 8.1L VP
2007 Sea Ray 290 Sundancer

Current boat
2004 Sea Ray 290 Sun Sport Twin 350 Mags

Not trying to hijack MGOakly's thread, but I think my questions fit in with the original question. I bought the base sound package on my 07 220H. It has the Clarion CDM4 (CMD4?) head unit and Clarion 6.5" (or 6"?) stock speakers. I want to upgrade the speakers and add a sub and an amp. Anyone have any thoughts on what type of amp to buy? I know enough to be dangerous with this stuff and know how to install and use it, but that is about it. I don't really know enough to know exactly what to buy.

Here is what I'm trying to do: I just want to upgrade the quality and volume of the sound and still maintain the ability to control the fade from front/back. Many times, I find that I can hardly hear the stereo when cruising at 30MPH or faster or on a windy day I can't hear it at all if I'm sitting up on the bolster seat while driving. At those speeds, I really have to turn up the volume. When I do that, people complain that the bow speakers are too loud. But, if I put most of the sound in the back and increase volume to where I can hear it then I get a lot of distortion.

I guess my main question is can I go with a 4 channel amp to power all 4 speakers AND a sub while still keeping my ability to control the fader on the head unit? I've previously had car equipment that wasn't matched up correctly that required me to adjust the fader on the amp by adjusting the power levels. I want to avoid that in this application. Can I dedicate 2 channels to the sub and then put both front speakers on a single channel and both rear speakers on a single channel? I had always heard that the best thing to do is put one speaker on each channel.

However, I don't want to break the bank on equipment here so buying a 5 or 6 channel amp seems to prices. So does buying a second mono amp for just the sub to pair with a 4 channel amp make more sense cost-wise? The little research I've done shows that a mono amp can be pretty expensive. I'm no expert on the pricing, so maybe I'm wrong there. I really don't want to spend upwards of $500 to upgrade this thing. Especially when the wife, who is one of the bow riders/complainers, thinks the radio is just fine and doesn't understand what the problem is.

Another thought I had was to upgrade only the rear speakers, using a 4 channel amp to power only the rear speakers (one channel per rear speaker) and the sub (with the remaining 2 channels). I would leave the stock speakers in the bow and not amplify them. If I did this, I should still be able to adjust the amp levels for the rear speakers and still maintain my fader control on the head unit while also getting a lot louder/better sound in the cockpit without blowing away the people in the bow. Right? Will this work?

Any thoughts on setting this up? I'm not in a rush to do this, so if it turns into my winter project that is OK with me.

_________________
Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

I know, I know, this will sound like one of those, " what I have is the best" type statements. After doing the math, the least expensive way to accomplish exactly what you're wanting is a 5-channel amp. Consider wiring costs for 2 amps vs. 1. Also, you only have to find mounting space for one. The Kicker 700.5 peaks around 940 watts @ 14v. You will be amazed at the sound you get from the stock speakers just by "amping" them. Also the Amp has a dedicated channel for the sub.

The CMD4 deck has 3 sets of RCA pre-outs, and this amp has 3 sets of RCA inputs. You loose nothing in the way of control from the deck.

The best part is ebay has tons of refurbs w/warranty for under $200.

_________________

H210SS 6.2
F150 Platinum

FIRST THING!!!! install an extra battery if not 2. I'm starting a campain on my local lakes not to jump start these crackers that have 12 cans hanging, four amps and one battery. Paddle to shore you dumba$$.

_________________

Or at LEAST carry a jumper pack.

_________________

H210SS 6.2
F150 Platinum

Edit that to say CHARGED jumper box.

_________________

On the tool front, get yourself a decent quality RATCHETING crimper and a portable blowtorch. The small butane torches are great. You'll use this to seal up the heatshrink tubing you'll be putting around the connectors. You really, really, really want to avoid leaving bare ends of wiring exposed to elements. Use a ratcheting crimper to really make sure you're getting a tight fit of the terminal lug to the wire. Once the mechanical connection is made, seal it up using heatshrink. And, as always, never ever use soldered connections for wiring on a boat. It's too brittle to withstand all the vibrations present on a boat.

Use marine-grade wiring as it's tinned internally to resist corrosion. DO NOT cheap-out and use auto or residential grade wire. I've used SkyCraft Surplus for wire for a couple of jobs. Nice quality stuff at a bargain price.

_________________
-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I'll take a good silver soldered connection over crimping anyday. This is one of the most debated arguments in boating stereos, has been for years. Correct Craft now solders as well as Fountain.

_________________

It's hotly debated in many areas in addition to boating. I've done a fair amount of both, and have come to the conclusion that either way is fine IF it's done right. That means, if soldering, that the lug and at least 1" of the wire's insulation is covered with shrink (to provide strain relief for the stiffened area), and if crimping, the right crimp tool, connectors, shrink (where appropriate, depending on the connectors) and technique are used. I've become a big believer in crimping, but it MUST be done with the right tools. The difference between a properly crimped connection and one done with a Radio Shlock lug and the nearest set of pliers is amazing. Also, FWIW, I've heard from a couple of people who work in the aircraft industry (it's one of the big industries here in Kansas) that everything is crimped on airplanes, big and small. And they have to consider corrosive environment, vibration, service life of decades, etc. Of course, they can also afford extremely expensive tools and the maintenance that goes with them.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

What kind of crimpers do you use? I need a good pair.

_________________

Therein lies the problem. To really do it right, you almost need a separate crimper for each type and/or size of connection. Ratcheting crimpers work so that once you begin to apply pressure, they won't release until you apply sufficient pressure to complete the crimp properly. And they normally have dies (heads) on them that are specific to the connector being used, that forms the crimp properly. You can get them with interchangeable dies, but they still usually just do a few connectors.

As an example, here's the one I use on RF coax cable for radio installation:



"The RFA-4005 is supplied with one RFA-4005-20 crimping tool frame and two die sets, the RFA-4005-01 and RFA-4005-02. All contained in a durable, padded, self-storage case."

Another example is the one I use for 12vdc connections (in dry locations). It's got a different die on it than the example above, and can crimp 3 different sizes (amp ratings) of PowerPole connectors. While the mechanism is the same as the previous example, it's only good for this one type of connector.



In other words, it can be hard to find a good crimper that does more than one or two types/sizes of connectors.

_________________


Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

Been there, doing that. I have the same goals as you. I added the same amp as in the 'premium' stereo package, the 4 channel APX480M. I left the existing 4 speakers driven by the CMD4A as is. I added two 7" Clarion 2 way speakers between the buckets and sunsport bench, with fader control as rear speakers. I bridged the remaining two channels to a 10" Momo (I have yet to install) using non-faded inputs. I will now have 4 cockpit speakers that can fade with two front speakers, and a sub that has variable gain through the CMD4A. You can see some of my progress here:
http://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1956

I basically stole the idea of the 10" Momo and the additional rear speakers from txjole2. The rest (if there is any) is all mine.

_________________
2007 Horizon 200
4.3L GXi/ SX 225 HP