www.iFourWinns.com

I took my brand new boat (35 hours) that has been running perfectly all summer in to get winterized this week. The dealer phoned me this morning asking if my boat had been over-heating, I confirmed it hasn't. The mechanic said he was having trouble running antifreez through the engine.

He just phoned me back saying that I need a new water pump and it's not covered by warranty! A $2 400 bill!!!

How could this not be covered under warranty?
Could the mechanic have caused this by doing something wrong? It ran perfectly a week ago....and he even said that it definatly would have over-heated.

What engine??

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MerCruiser 350 MPI/Bravo

I do not like the method of winterizing where antifreeze is sucked up the drive of a raw water cooled engine, for a couple of reasosns. One is that if the thermostat is not open, the AF will go out the manifolds but the engine block and heads may still have water in them, and not be protected. Second, antifreeze is more dense than water, in fact, the way you measure the concentration of antifreeze is basically by taking the specific gravity of it with the antifreeze tested. So by its nature it's harder to get it sucked in by the impeller. Now in the case of the Bravo drives and Volvo drives, the situation is even worse because the impeller is mounted on the engine. So it has to suck water quite a distance, with the pump being there and the water intakes as much as 4-5 feet to the rear of the front of the engine. In contrast, an Alpha drive or OMC Cobra drive has the impeller in the drive, right near the water intakes, so it only has to suck the water up a very short distance. I don't think engines that are raw water cooled should be winterized that way because of the first reason I gave. So I'd question their method of winterization. It's possible that caused the impeller to wear and that could overheat the engine. I use the drain and backfill with AF method. It is slower than the method they are trying to use but it's much safer for the engine if you want to use AF.

I'd look in your owners manual and see how they say to winterize the engine. I'll bet you they don't say anything about sucking AF up the drive, if there is any mention of AF, it is to be added by backfilling through the hoses after draining. So when you ask then what they DID, and then tell them what Merc says you are supposed to DO, then tell them what they did was not recommended by Merc, and you don't think you should pay for their mistake or attempt to save time. I know for sure neither Merc nor Volvo advise that you suck AF up the the drive to winterize their engines.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

So, Am I the only one who uses an inverted funnel with the hose and muffs to run AF through the engine?

I use a Bungee cord to attach the funnel and hose to my swim ladder. After running it normally on the muffs to warm up, I shut down, and switch to the funnel and restart the engine to draw in about 3 gal of AF (After about 2 gal, the driveway is getting pink'ed). Shut down the engine before I suck it dry, and call it good 'til summer.

It get's to about -20F on occasion in the winter here, and haven't had any issues that way for more than 5 years now.

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Walt B
"Debt-Charged"
Black '07 H210SS
6.2L Bravo One turning a 21P HIFive
Wakeboard Tower with Perfect Pass Stargazer version
Missouri River; Kansas City, Mo.

otoolea, something in that story stinks. I can't think of any good reason why your water pump would be bad, why it wouldn't be covered, OR why it would cost $2400 if it wasn't covered. I think on a 35 hour boat, they'd have to prove to me why it was my fault that it failed (if it actually did, that is).

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I believe you have two water pumps in that system one is the raw water pump that draws water from the lake and the second circulates it through the engine. The two pumps are not worth more than $600 together and the changeout of both can be done in 4 hours easily. I would think that a $1200 bill would be overkill but not terribly unreasonable. The engine circ pump should be covered under warranty, the other is questionable. It doesn't sound like they are replacing both your pumps so they are definitely hosing you!
I would get some more information from them and maybe you should pay up your bill to this point and pull your boat out to somewhere else that will treat you more reasonable. The best thing to do would be to learn how to do this yourself...the experience will be satisfying and you will learn more about your boat's engine and compartment than you thought! Half the fun to boat ownership to me is the tinkering, maintaining and fixing!

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Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Most merc dealers wet muff the outdrive and then feed antifreeze all on the same run. So it should never run dry.

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Don't you have the air pump? Does that not get the water out of the engine so you don't need antifreeze?
Then just lower the drive so the water runs out of it.

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H210SS 6.2
F150 Platinum

I don't know.....the dealer just told I had to get it done every year.....-40 up here so that could have something to do with it.

do you guys thinks it's logical that it ran perfectly just days before dropping off? I can't help but think the dealer did something wrong to cause the pump failure.

I'm tellin' ya, something's wrong with the dealer's story.

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Mike
2005 Four Winns 230/240
VP 5.7GXi/DP
1998 F-150 XLT
Boat Pic

I would agree that you are getting hosed somewhere.... $2400 to replace either water pump is a rip. Either pump can't cost more than a few hundred dollars, and either should take no more than an hour or two to replace. Not only that, if the boat was not running hot before you brought the boat in, you didn't have a water pump problem! Why do you now that the boat is in the dealers hands?

Something smells rotten here..... If I had a dealer tell me that it was going to cost $2400 for a water pump, even including the winterization, I'd be going somewhere else.

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2009 H180 w/3.0 Merc
Homebuilt Minimax Hydro
2011 Zodiac Cadet 310

Agreed that something does not smell right.

Also, not to hijack this thread, but I have to respectfully disagree with LouC on this particular engine based on personal experience. The 350 has some serious suck power when it comes to water intake. If you run it much higher than idle on muffs, the hose has trouble keeping up. I've actually watched my hose collapse a bit when running the RPMs up. Even assuming that it *might* be a little weaker than you would like, when winterizing you can take whatever container your AF is in and put it either on top of your transom or on your swim platform and run the hose down to the muffs. Gravity compensates for whatever perceived weakness may exist in the intake system. The backfill method certainly works, I'm just stating that using the muffs and an elevated container likewise works just as well-assuming your water pump is functioning properly, of course.

With regard to Brent's suggestion, I have to caution against that as your method of winterization. Every time I've used the pump it has been great, but then I pull the 4 plastic blue plugs and guess what happens? A little water drains out. Relying on the pump alone to get you "dry" is pretty risky.

Back to the dealer: sounds to me like someone ran your engine without giving it water once it left your possession. I can't think of ANY other reason this problem would suddenly appear, unless you did it and don't remember it. More than likely it was someone at the stealer, and either they aren't fessing up to it or the stealer is trying to cover their employee's mistake. Garbage and dishonesty if they are doing that.

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Paul
2007 Four Winns Horizon 220
Mercruiser 350 Mag MPI w/ Bravo III Drive
2004 Ford Explorer Limited (V8-AWD)
Pomme de Terre Lake (Southwest Missouri)

I agree with you about disagreeing. That is ONE of the standard teaching at merc training.

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Update.....well now there's a 'supervisor' looking into it. Apparently the water pump is only covered for the first 10 hours.....nice!.....on an engine that has a 20 hour break in period. That shows some really good faith in your product.

The pattern I keep hearing is that pump failure like this (on a boat with low hours) is almost always due to running the engine dry. Well the only time it's ever been started out of the water is by my dealer.....so now is it just my word against theirs? I guess I'll loose that one.

Anyone interested in buying a 2008 200ss with a brand water pump?