2008 H210 U-Joints

LouC · **Posted:** Tue Sep 03, 2019 7:10 am

The gimble bearing per se does not get out of alignment...what you are aligning...is the height of the engine/coupler...so that when the driveshaft goes through the gimble, it goes straight into the coupler splines and does not put pressure on them...think of it like this...only the front mounts are adjustable...the engine is cantilevered off the rear mounts...so you can raise or lower the front to change alignment if necessary.
What causes it to be off:
1) not being set right at the factory....
2) defective rear mounts
3) rot in the engine mounting pads that causes the engine to drop lower at the front

I have checked mine with the tool every time I had the drive off (probably done it 10-12 times by now) and I have not had to change it..
If you pull the drive you will not affect the engine alignment at all. Even if you aren't going to check it....the tool is really helpful...because the gimble bearing 'gimbals' and can move slightly when you pull the drive off...but then it will be hard to get the driveshaft to line up when re-installing the drive...so you slide the tool in..all the way....and it lines up the gimble bearing perfectly with the coupler splines...so the drive shaft will slide in easier...I still have to use a long thin screwdriver slid in the u joints to turn the drive shaft to get the splines to line up.

If you are going to do this...think about getting a drive jack like the one in my pix....it will save your back...these drives are heavy...or...build a drive stand out of wood with casters on the bottom...just make the height right up to the anti-ventilation plate...I did that first....used it a few years....then got the drive jack...makes it much easier esp if you are older than a certain age...ie….the same age as the original small block Chevrolet...lol...

When you have it off you will:
check the d/s bellows for water, or small cracks...if found you need to replace it...much better to do this...than to have rusted gimble bearing and u joints because it was never taken off...
check gimble for smooth movement no roughness
check u joints for looseness, stiffness, rust coming out of the bearings...
splines on the drive shaft (should be squared off not pointed)
splines on the coupler (same as above....you will need a bright LED flashlight to look inside

IF you have a grease able gimble and u joints:
grease the gimble bearing while turning it by hand to spread the grease out...make sure the grease comes out all round it...
grease the u-joints...if the old grease comes out rusty colored..that's a good warning sign its time to replace them before they come apart....

coat the driveshaft splines with Evinrude triple guard grease....but not the 2 O-rings....these get lubed with motor oil only...
coat the mating surfaces of the pivot housing and upper gear housing with the same grease...this keeps it from corroding on...
use Evinrude gasket sealing compound on the threads of the 6 studs that hold the drive on...prevents seizing and corrosion...

doing this...I have avoided major repairs....while using the old Cobra in very harsh conditions for an outdrive...100% salt water...moored for 6 months out of the year....its work but simple work for the most part....so you get the tools (drive jack, alignment tool) that make your life easier...and BTW, I have not had to pay for any service on this drive...since about 2006 when it was last resealed...

Ps you do not need to remove the bellows...unless it needs to be replaced...you DO need to disconnect the shift cable on the Volvo....I don't on the Cobra...because the design is different....

jontmiller · **Joined:** Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:16 am **Posts:** 296

If you are bored read through this thread relating how poor of a mechanic I am (but getting better yearly)

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14535

I post because had I avoided pulling the drive every season I am pretty sure I would be up to my third bearing...by pulling and inspecting I have been able to push fresh grease into the gimble bearing and ujoints which I firmly believe has saved / increased the life span on the drive components. With a half-ass drive dolly I can get it off in 30 minutes and like Lou said a bit longer getting back on depending how the stars align....all in all a 3-4 beer job.

makoshako · **Joined:** Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:15 pm **Posts:** 23

So,

I finally got my phone to allow me to access my pics.

Over the past weekend I had a friend come over and we built a stand (not unlike some I have seen since ... great minds must think alike), got the outdrive off and determined that the u-joints were the problem. They would move in one direction and not so much in the other. Interesting that both u-joints were acting in unison. Anyway, on that point, the u-joints were marked with GKN-6H, which "crosses" to a Moog 433. Which you can get for <$10 bucks almost anywhere. The U-Joint Bellows did have some water in it, but hard to tell if it was a fast or slow leak. I pulled the boat Saturday and split the drive on Sunday and there was no obvious split in the bellows.

I have bought some standard GMB 210-0153 U-Joints (cross referenced to the Moog 433) and yet to see if they actually fit (they are close ~1.1" diameter and ~3" across)).

I will replace the U-Joint and U-Joints Bellows, but now, in the mind of pulling the outdrive every year and inspecting, why replace anything (e.g Gimbal Bearing) if not required. So in my case, U-Joints, 50/50 on the Bellows.

Thanks again.

LouC · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:57 am

replace the bellows...but make sure to get the end on the gimble housing carefully seated (the gimble housing has a groove in it...and there is a rib in the inner sealing surface of the bellows....that has to go in that groove....screw clamp has to be between 1:00 and 2:00 position...it is possible...for water to get in the tube for the gimble grease fitting...might want to make sure that tube isn't loose...if so...re-seat it with Permatex Aviation sealer on the ends...

When I do the bellows (Cobra and Volvo SX very similar) I do pull off the pivot housing after pulling the drive...that way...you are sure you got it on right...I use either OMC gasket sealer or Permatex Aviation sealer on the gimble flange for the bellows....on the end where it pops into the pivot housing....and on the threads of the hinge bolts that hold the pivot housing on...that prevents leaks and corrosion...

TX H210SS · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am **Posts:** 1488

Good explanation Lou and thanks....I'm amazes there's no clamp to secure the drive bellows on the pivot side....obviously the sealant and friction is enough but being so sensitive to water you would think a clamp of some sort would be used there.

Anyway....I've watched videos and think i have a handle on the alignment tool process... just hope she's in line so i don't have to play with motor mounts.

LouC · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:38 pm

TX H210SS wrote:

Good explanation Lou and thanks....I'm amazes there's no clamp to secure the drive bellows on the pivot side....obviously the sealant and friction is enough but being so sensitive to water you would think a clamp of some sort would be used there.

Anyway....I've watched videos and think i have a handle on the alignment tool process... just hope she's in line so i don't have to play with motor mounts.

When you do the job you'll see how it seals...the bellows gets pulled into the pivot housing opening and pops through it....and then when you bolt up the drive....the nose of the bearing carrier seals right up against the inner lip of the bellows...it's made that way to seal...but what you do...is coat the lip of the bellows and the nose of the bearing carrier with OMC/Evinrude triple guard grease...and it does seal just fine....

Surface Interval · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:03 pm

Think of yearly outdrive maintenance just like checking the oil in your car. If you check the outdrive (each year) you are much less likely to have a developing issue become a serious problem. See the last paragraph below. The Volvo driveshaft bellows on the '1990s and 2000s were known to have the hose clamp screw wear a hole in one of the ribs of the bellows. Volvo re-designed the bellows and issued a service bulletin identifying the correct position for the screw on the hose clamp at the front of the bellows (2 o'clock). Originally it was a 3 o'clock. I had two bellows develop leaks on the '95 190 due to this. When the wheel is turned full right the bellows contacted the hoseclamp screw and wore a hole in the bellows allowing water into the bellows. As far as driveshaft alignment when re-installing the drive, I either reinstall the prop and put the drive in gear so turning the prop one way will turn the driveshaft. Otherwise I have wrapped the prop shaft with a rag to protect the splines and used a channellock pliers or other tool to turn the propshaft. It has always worked well for me.

While the Volvo manual does refer to installing an eye bolt in the dipstick hole, there are those that have had this ruin the dipstick threads and require drilling the hole larger to have a helicoil installed. I have seen a cargo strap used to lift the drive. Any way you do it, the drive is more than one or two people will want to wrestle with. I do recommend a stern drive jack like Lou identified, or at least a stand. In fact, I bought one of the Stumpy's jacks because of Lou's past comments. Thank you Lou!

As far as my "Much less likely" comment in the first paragraph, we had our Volvo duoprop drive on the 268 break a few gear teeth this Summer and send metal shavings through the whole outdrive. This messed up pretty much every gear and bearing and shaft in the drive. In the end it was more justifiable to install a new drive (with a 2 year warranty) than replace all the parts and hope all the metal shavings were removed. That meant being out of commission for a month of prime time boating. That also meant around 10 grand! OUCH! If there is a bright side it would be that since we trailer the boat each weekend, we noticed the issue by turning the prop by hand, and avoided being broke down a long way down the river from home. Being a long way down the river is pretty much the same as being "up a creek" if you know what I mean..... That last trip saw us 40 miles downstream on the Mississippi at one point. We had the boat 26 miles up stream the week before. Two weeks before that we took a week long trip from Hastings, MN to LaCrosse, WI and to the Iowa border (approx 140 miles each way). Take care of your boat and it is much more likely to take care of you. Having a problem on the water may be some peoples' idea of adventure and excitement, but I doubt the wife and kids would see it that way.....

LouC · **Posted:** Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:30 am

Wow 10 grand for a new Volvo SX-DP?
I wonder how much cheaper an SX single prop would be?
Usually that kind of damage is a result of a prop strike of some kind...did you think of putting in an insurance claim? I recall reading an article by an engine surveyor...who had studied outdrive failures...and found that failures like that...are most often old damage...that eventually fractures and causes a major failure..but that is not normal wear like a worn bearing...seal...etc....that kind of damage is not covered by most insurance....but a chipped gear...is likely impact damage...
Did the shop who did the work suggest trying an ins claim?

I have a few places that I have researched that can ship me a 'new' Cobra drive (mostly likely rebuilt with a year warrantee) and they are in the $3000 or so range...I may convert mine to the SX when the time comes...I think you can get rebuilt SXs for approx. $4000...and that would make the boat more sale-able if I ever sell it..lol….
So far the old one...is still doing fine....with its CA-THUNK dog clutch shifting....

Misterfu02 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:14 am

LouC wrote:

Wow 10 grand for a new Volvo SX-DP?
I wonder how much cheaper an SX single prop would be?
Usually that kind of damage is a result of a prop strike of some kind...did you think of putting in an insurance claim? I recall reading an article by an engine surveyor...who had studied outdrive failures...and found that failures like that...are most often old damage...that eventually fractures and causes a major failure..but that is not normal wear like a worn bearing...seal...etc....that kind of damage is not covered by most insurance....but a chipped gear...is likely impact damage...
Did the shop who did the work suggest trying an ins claim?

I have a few places that I have researched that can ship me a 'new' Cobra drive (mostly likely rebuilt with a year warrantee) and they are in the $3000 or so range...I may convert mine to the SX when the time comes...I think you can get rebuilt SXs for approx. $4000...and that would make the boat more sale-able if I ever sell it..lol….
So far the old one...is still doing fine....with its CA-THUNK dog clutch shifting....

Did the 95 Horizons with the OMC Cobra have the dog clutch? I remember our old boat clunking in and out of gear way more than my 06 with the SX. Even though I heard they're basically the same drive?

LouC · **Posted:** Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:22 am

The dog clutch models ran from 1986-1993. From '94 on up to '98 (the end of OMC sterndrive production) they had cone clutches and they were exactly the same as the Volvo SX of the same year. What happened was Volvo wanted a drive system that used the same cut out as Merc, to make their drive more marketable to boat companies...the old AQ drives...had a much bigger cut out...so...they saw an opportunity because OMC was not doing great financially...but had a suitable design in the Cobra...and just built a new factory in Lexington Ky to build them...so the Cobra was engineered to use cone clutch shifting in the upper gear housing...and that became via the joint venture...the OMC Cobra/Volvo Cobra SX drive. BTW, just incase someone thinks Volvo did all the re-engineering....OMC was already using a cone clutch on the '90-'93 King Cobra drives used on mostly big block applications....

So if you had a '95...it was a cone clutch...if it shifted rough...the engine idle speed was probably too high...

Surface Interval · **Posted:** Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:26 pm

We thought about whether to try to file an insurance claim, but we had not hit anything in a few years, and anything we could recall was at a dead slow idle of about 560rpm. We felt that since we could not identify an event, and especially nothing within the last few years, a claim would be questionable at best.

You can find rebuilt or serviceable drives at times. We did not want to take a chance on having ours reworked and all damage not corrected or metal shavings removed. I'm an old airplane mechanic but I did not have the time or the special tools required, and Volvo parts are expensive.

LouC · **Posted:** Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:39 pm

TX H210SS wrote:

What i dont get is why would the gimble bearing be out of alignment?...is it that fragile of a connection. If so, I fear knocking it out of alignment during the shaft stab.

the gimble bearing does not get out of alignment per se. What can happen, is that either the engine was not properly aligned when the boat was built, or the engine mounts settled a bit and that changes the aligment of the rear of the engine and the gimble housing. That then puts stress on the coupler because the driveshaft not in it straight and true but at a slight angle. So when you align the engine what you are doing, is making sure that the inner splines of the engine coupler, are lined up with the gimble housing so that when the driveshaft passes through the gimble bearing, it goes 100% straight into the coupler.

The way it is checked is to put grease on the smallest part of the alignment tool. You then slide the tool all the way in, and pull it out straight. The witness marks on the tool (which will show a pattern of the inner splines of the coupler) will tell you if its aligned or not. If the marks look the same all the way around, you're good. If not, then you have to figure out whether the engine has to be raised or lowered to make it right. It can be confusing, on the forums at iboats, there are some vids that show how its done.

I check mine every time the drive is off, have not had to change it all this time, probably because my mechanics got it right when they set up the Cobra for me way back in '04. Lucky its stayed the same all this time.

Aligning the gimble bearing itself is only done because it makes it easier to get the driveshaft into the coupler when you re-install the outdrive. The gimble bearing like an eyeball socket is free to gimble, to allow movement that is necessary when trimming the drive and steering.

So to be clear, what you are doing with engine alignment, is aligning the coupler inner splines with where the driveshaft will pass through when you install the drive. The closer it is to perfect, the less stress on the coupler and the longer it will last. And the way it is done, is to either raise or lower the front of the engine, using the front engine mounts.... which will change the angle of the inner splines in the coupler, vis a vis the gimble housing.

If you ever replaced a clutch on a manual trans car, its a similar concept. You use a clutch alignment tool, so the clutch plate splines will line up with the transmission input shaft when you install the transmission after replacing the clutch plate. If the alignment tool is not used, you will have hell trying to install the transmission.

I assume we need to disconnect the bellows and shift cable beforehand.

Only the shift cable, the drive just slides off the pivot housing. The bellows is attached to the gimble housing on the fwd end and the pivot housing on the rwd end.

TX H210SS · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 9:10 am **Posts:** 1488

Well time is fornthisnproject....I have been on projects for work and keeping up with house stuff all summer so haven't had boat to lake yet...I will be taking trip in next week or two to run fuel out before winterizing. Days are shortening and getting cooler in evenings but likely in 80 to 90 til mid November.

makoshako · **Joined:** Sun Nov 09, 2008 7:15 pm **Posts:** 23

So I gave up with replacing just the U-Joints in the assembly and decided to buy the assembly. Now I have a new U-Joint Assy, new bellows, Gimbal Bearing, and seals.

I am now stuck on how to get the Pivot Housing out. The Manual I am referring to is Publ. 7746477 English 06-2008 and calls to use the Large Cup and Nut from Special Tool 3849647 and you press the pivot pins out. Does that sound correct?

I have a Prod No. 3883601 SX-A Ratio 1:60 Ser No 4202207322

Thanks ... one day she will be back together and better than new ... well sorta.

LouC · **Posted:** Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:07 am

When you say the u joint assembly, do you mean the complete driveshaft with the u joints installed? If so, that means to me at least that you will need a shop to install this because you have to know how to set the rolling torque, unless you are familiar with how to do this. You can R+R the drive yourself, take it to a shop and have them do it.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Gimbal-R ... _id.775538

this is what you have? I can see the differences between the SX and SX-A here.

www.iFourWinns.com

2008 H210 U-Joints

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