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 Post subject: Stereo install in H200SS
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Shark

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:04 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Shanty Bay, ON, Canada
Some of you may have been following my back-and-forth with Blessed over the past few weeks, centering around his post from last summer: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2125
Well, it's been interesting. It all started when I saw Blessed's thread: he bought good stuff, took the time to do a nice clean job of it, and paid careful attention to detail. Certainly this was a winning combination that I could simply copy in my own boat. I used 4 gauge power and ground, fused at 60A, and ran a 20 gauge wire for my Sirius. Blessed had issues with his deck power memory; I don't, but my Sirius would never remember presets, so I ran a new power wire for that, and fused it with a 5A. All wires were run in plastic loom, and tied off where-ever possible with zip ties. The ends of everything were shrink-tubed. I used a fish tape instead of removing all the panels out of the side of the boat. It worked well, but required 2 people and some light swearing. I used a JL M4500 amp. It's a nice looking piece, rated for use on a boat, and it makes 80w @ 4 ohms, on 4 channels, RMS. The main difference between our 2 systems is that he used a woofer, and I didn't. (If you could see my home A/V set up, you would never believe that I just admitted that). What I neglected was that his boat is a H210, and mine is merely a H200. There is 12" difference in length (no length jokes, please) and 2" in beam. This 2" of beam came back to bite me, but more on that later.

I am very fussy about these things, and I decided to go with 6.5" speakers in the bow, instead of the 7.7"s that he used. I did this because that silly moulded in 'style swoop' that surrounds the speaker measured just slightly smaller than the 7.7" JL. So, I opted for the 6.5". I used the M650 CCX. Be careful with the nomenclature here, because the MX650 CCX appears similar, but is a lesser speaker. They have a smaller tweeter, and the grille isn't exactly the same. They also don't have a complete proper crossover. The M650 is the brother to the M770. The MX650 is a different bird altogether.

There is plenty of room for these speakers, in fact I didn't have to cut any fiberglass here at all. The stock Sony junkers only used 4 mounting holes though, so I did have to drill new holes for the 6 screws. And, because I didn't cut up here, I didn't have to replace the plywood backer like Blessed did.

Anyway, here they are in the bow:

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You'll noticed I again followed Blessed's lead, and used stainless security screws to keep everything in place, and to keep it mine. Anyone who undertakes stealing my gear will either be very well equipped from a tool standpoint, or they are prepared to really screw up my boat. Either way, I'm betting they'll move on to the next one.

Next are the cockpit speakers. No worries here, right? Wrong! They fit with ease from a diameter perspective (after cutting out to match the template). They don't fit depth wise. At all. They are FAR too deep. I guess this is where the 2" difference between the H210 and H200 lies. Blessed is 100% certain that the 2 boats share that portion of liner - because he knows they have the same windshield - so the only difference can be in the liner to hull dimension. It seems odd to me that FW would increase the width of the boat, but not increase interior space? Must be something to with width vs length and the tradeoffs associated with each in how the boat handles? Whatever. So, I took my speaker mounting template (supplied in the box) to a local plastic and acrylic shop, where they laser cut me some spacer rings. This actually turned out to be a fairly elegant solution to what I was starting to consider a very serious problem. He made them from bright white, and they look quite decent. The issue I then had was that the liner isn't in the boat in a uniform manner, and this results in the liner being substantially closer to the hull on the starboard side of the boat than the port side. This still doesn't sit that well with me, but you can't tell from an appearance or performance standpoint, and I would have never known if I didn't undertake this mod, so whatever. I ended up needing a 3/8" spacer on the port side, and a whopping 1 & 1/8" on the starboard side. Because of where the vinyl trim comes down over top of the speakers, it actually doesn't look too out of place. Here are some pics.

Port:
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Starboard:
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Now, to round it out, here are some other pics of the amp, helm, fuse, etc.

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I did take the time to set the input impedance on the amplifer with a volt meter. The JL book says to turn off all tone controls, and for a 4 ohm speaker, to adjust gain upward (while playing 1000 Hz at OdB) until your AC Voltmeter reads 17.8 volts at 3/4 volume on the head unit. First of all, I can't figure out how this power is AC, but nothing reads in the DC setting, and second, it is a VERY fine control, and setting 17.8 is pretty tough. I screwed around with it, and ended up with 17.8 for the rears (channels 3&4), and about 17.5 for the fronts. This was intentional, just to give the smaller speakers ever so slightly less power. I set the front speakers on High Pass filter, rolling off everything below 60Hz. They can't play any lower than this anyway, so sending that to them can only cause harm. I left the crossover off for the rears, running them full range, hoping that their extra size might give me some more low bass in the cockpit. It works very well. I am very impressed with the JL stuff, and it looks nice too. Other than the spacer incident, it turned out as planned.

Please learn from my mistake and don't assume that if it worked in my boat, it will work in yours. Boats are made of fiberglass, and their dimensions vary. Be careful and do your homework. It will save you some tears.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:30 pm 
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268 Vista

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 9:49 am
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Location: West Michigan
Very nicely done. It looks great !

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:49 am
Posts: 401
Location: Eastern Canada
Nice. 8)
If there's no light swearing then you're probably doing it wrong!
Not sure if the liners are the same but the windshields are. Difference maybe where the edges (chines?) in the hull are formed, the hull width or the liner interior.
Spacers don't look out of place at all to me - they look factory. Tough spots to see anyway as I recall so nice work.
Much prefer the white helm over the carmel one I have.
Nice . . .

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2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Crew
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Dolphin

Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:18 am
Posts: 91
Location: Ontario, Canada
Great install and nice pics. How is the sound?????

I might do the same to avoid cutting a big hole for a sub.

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2008 H210SS Yellow VP 5.7 GXi 320 HP (sold May 2010)
2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI Diesel


Last edited by farleywilbur on Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:41 am
Posts: 1182
Location: Appleton, WI
Very nice install! Would you be interested in getting some spacers made for me? I want to upgrade speakers, but everything I read about involves cutting holes bigger or mounting depth issues.

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1998 Baja Boss 252 7.4L MPI Bravo 1 (SOLD)
2007 FW H200SS 5.0GXI (Sold)
2004 Chevy Silverado 2500 Crew 6.0L (tow vehicle)
1991 FW 170 Freedom 4.3L (SOLD)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 12:31 pm
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Location: Chester, UK
Very nice indeed.

Do you think you could persude my wife to let me fit something like that in our boat.

No chance I'm afraid !

Graham


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Shark

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:04 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Shanty Bay, ON, Canada
Hey 07H200SS - thanks.

I won't get them for you, in fact I don't know what I could do that you can't do directly with the plastic guy. That said, let me know if you need it, and I'll get you his info. I'm sure he'd be happy to help you, though I don't imagine making spacer rings for boat stereos is his core business! He may have just taken pity on me because he could see in my eyes I was desperate for his help!

He will need:
1. the color you want, presumably a bright white
2. precise ID and OD dimensions
3. thickness dimension.

And then he can laser them out for you. He had some pretty neat tools in there... That said, I'm sure you could find someone in your hometown that does it. He was making shelves, ticket boxes, display cases, etc.

You could also do what I did. Go to the best local car stereo shop around, tell him about your problem, and see where they send you. They'll know where to get spacers made. that will save you the international shipping costs, etc.

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5.7 EFI Volvo Penta
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2004 Toyota 4Runner


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:53 pm 
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Nauti Luv

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 9:55 am
Posts: 2186
Location: Little Elm - Lake Lewisville TX
Thats a great write up and a perfect install. These speakers are my next step in my boat. I will probably have to wait till this winter to move on that simply because I am in the car business and it is pretty crappy right now. I have spent my share of $$$ on the boat over this winter with a second battery, Perko switch, LED's and my stereo. For now, what I have works and unless they die early on me, will need to make it through the season.

Again, great work and thanks for posting the pics.

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Previous Boats:
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2008 H200SS "Nauti Luv"
2006 Tahoe Q4


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:36 am
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Location: Northshore Boston & 1000 Islands
Nice installation… I see you spent a time in Details…. Very impressive

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:15 pm 
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Location: Appleton, WI
Another question for you. Where did you get those from and how much were they? I looked on Crutchfield.com and they were $350.00/pr on there. OUCH!! Thats $700.00 for 4?? Seems really high for some 6.5" speakers?

_________________
1998 Baja Boss 252 7.4L MPI Bravo 1 (SOLD)
2007 FW H200SS 5.0GXI (Sold)
2004 Chevy Silverado 2500 Crew 6.0L (tow vehicle)
1991 FW 170 Freedom 4.3L (SOLD)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:26 pm
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Location: Long Island NY
You guys do awesome work, I just replaced the old sound system in my 88 Horizon with a JBL MR17.3 marine receiver with Sirius and a pair of Polyplanar box 2 way speakers. Used one of the new small Shakespeare Sirius antennas. It works great compared to what I had before (cheapo Jensen unit). I like the box speakers because I could mount them on the gunnel storage shelf and didn't have to do any cutting.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:08 pm 
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All Night Long
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07H200SS wrote:
Another question for you. Where did you get those from and how much were they? I looked on Crutchfield.com and they were $350.00/pr on there. OUCH!! Thats $700.00 for 4?? Seems really high for some 6.5" speakers?



Email Ryan@ Winnisquam - he'll get you set up with JL for a better price. Authorized as well - so warranty won't be an issue if you ever need i.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:48 pm 
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Shark

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:04 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Shanty Bay, ON, Canada
Hey 07H200SS - I got mine at Winnisquam. Cougar referred me to him, and Ryan was great to deal with, and the prices were better than anywhere else I could find. That said, they are expensive speakers. You are going to pay more for them than you will for Polk, westsounds, etc. In my opinion, they are better, and I like that they look like they might be stock. They fit in well with the boat, and casual observers might not notice that anything has been upgraded.

Feel free to email me at jjker@hotmail.com, and I'll tell you exactly what they charged me.

Remember, there is a big difference between the MX650 and the M650. The M650 is better, and is a proper match for the M770.

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2004 Toyota 4Runner


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:47 pm 
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Location: So. California
JJKer;

I really like the stereo up grade you completed It's obviously a quality installation and a quality system. I also just upgraded my system by changing speakers and adding an additional amplifier in my H240.

I reused my Hifonics Zeus 5 channel amplifier (4 x 110 watts + 300 watts) to power 4 new Alpine SPR-M70 7" component speakers (now using only 4 channels) and installed a new Alpine PDX 1.600 mono block sub woofer amplifier. I installed a new Boston G510-4 sub woofer in an enclousure that I located between the boats ice chest and dual batteries. (Sorry no picturs of the sub or accessories, camera battery died, I will post soon.)

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AMPS INSTALLED

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FRONT SPEAKERS INSTALLED

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REAR SPEAKERS INSTALLED

Originally I was planning on the 7.7" JL Audio speakers everyone talks so highly about but I am very happy with the ALPINE 7" components. I also replaced all speaker, ground and power wires.

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2006 H240 6.2 MX 320HP B3
La Habra, California


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:47 am 
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All Night Long
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Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:03 am
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Location: Lake Washington, Seattle, WA
That looks fantastic!

What turned you on to the alpine speakers? I know they made great decks/amps - but I haven't heard much about their speakers?

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