www.iFourWinns.com

Hi

Have just acquired our new boat a Sundowner 205 1990 Vintage I do believe . With a 5.7 OMC Cobra. Now I'm new to inboards & this is my largest boat yet, previously had 3 smaller 16ft'ish boats until now. I'm UK based & we usually launch from Poole.

Here she is, when I picked her up, "Powertech II" is her name, though I'm tempted to change it for something a little more cheeky. Yes it's a USA spec trailer & I'm aware of the issues regards it.

Ready for a sea trial


We had our first sea trial on the weekend & all went well, no overheating, no major issues, all bar one the original gauges work just some minor fettling on the interior cosmetics. All the ancillaries work fine, inc VHF, bilge pump etc etc. I'll be giving her a once over with new pump, seals, hoses & bellows etc where needed.

The previous owner told me they only ever made two yellow ones of this model? not sure how true that is but googling brings up no others the same. She has the original transport, camping & full covers which is nice. In fact the whole boat is incredibly original throughout. All the gelcoat is original too & is in damn good condition for her age. She has an inbuilt swim platform not sure if they all had that??

So what do I need to know, check, common issues etc???

Having used her & given her a good days trial my list starts with

1) Bow roller!! daft idea not having one with her hull shape

2) Trim tabs or something to resolve her stern down attitude, she's bows up till 16-18mph at least & obviously hideously inefficient at anything above 6mph up to planing attitude. She happily cruises at 24mph but has a tendency to drop off the plane below that, which might be prop size related, she has a stainless prop which appears "quite big" what would be the original size? I'd consider moving weight forward, eg battery, fuel tank all 45g of it! as this looks an easy task.

She handled some chop & swell with ease, very smooth ride indeed & little to no slamming. Cornering & handling in general very impressive so very pleased with that side of things.

3) Rubber stoppers for the center windshield when folded out as there appears nothing to stop it if dropped accidentally.

4) I'd like a pic of the original cuddy upper lid/centreway step thing as this is one part that is not original. It's currently a bit of folded ally.

5) Sources for the vinyl to match the original or what are the colour codes? She has off white/grey/yellow interior colours.

6) Some ideas for storage areas besides the engine bay as this seems a whole waste of space. Considering its size there is relatively little storage area on the boat generally.

7) Bilge pump, a) its at the front of the bilge , b its not that manly looking so I may just another secondary one at the back.


Any other suggestions welcome, looking forward to the replies

Nice looking boat! Very unusual indeed. You will definitely get looks in that boat.

I don't know much about these boats other than the 7 hours on the clock I've got on mine! So, the only thing I know enough about to comment on is speed to maintain plane. I have a 195 so, a foot shorter and also a 4.3 engine so, less weight however, I noticed it will plane at about 14 kts and will tend to stay there unless I run into some chop then I've got to increase power to maintain plane.
You MIGHT have a prop issue, not sure though. I've got one of those hydrofoils on the anit-cavitation plate. This might be why I am able to get up on plane and stay there so easily

_________________
1987 Sundowner 195, 4.3 OMC " Z boat"
1983 Wellcraft 248 Sportsman, 3.0L OMC Sea Drive "Born Again"
9' Patriot 40lbs TM "Quack Addict"

My '88 H-200 has the same hull but the smaller 4.3 V6. The V8 models I think came with a 14.5x19 pitch prop. Mine will plane out at 18-20 mph or 3,000 rpm. The hull is very stable but it does run in stern down mode if you are plowing. Believe it or not I have seen another that color, it was a bigger 241 Liberator with the 454 King Cobra cone clutch drive. Its a great looking boat and stable and safe on the water. The swim platform, all the Sundowners and Horizons of that size and year range came that way. The older boats had the more square stern with the teak swim platform.

One of the issues with the trailer which is pretty critical is the ball size for the hitch. Here in the US the standard ball size is 2", there it's 50 mm but that's less than 2" (2"=50.8mm, right) so the US spec ball will not fit the Euro coupler, unless its adjustable.
Here in the US couplers on U-Haul trailers are adjustable.
I've heard of guys in Australia converting US trailers to their specs changing the axles and brake systems, might be costly but might still be cheaper than a new or used trailer over there.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Your trailer does not look like a Four Winns trailer at all. Fortunately, it looks much better! Four Winns steal tube trailers rust from the inside out. Yours is an aluminum I-beam trailer...very nice, but it looks like it was made for a boat 2-3 feet longer than yours. That's fine if adjusted OK and you are getting proper tongue weight.

I'm not sure what you mean about getting a bow roller, unless you don't like the PVC "V" that the trailer has. These type of trailers are usually backed in far enough to submerge the tires, and the boat is "floated on", or driven on with a small amount of power. Not meant for winching more than couple feet. If you retrieve your boat that way, I don't see any need for an added roller.

ps. On your trailer, the whole axle set can be adjusted forward or aft to adjust the balance for boat position and proper tongue weight.

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

We have already adjusted the trailer quite a bit, axles forward, boat forward etc. Its a First Load Aluminium trailer & a nice bit of kit. It does have a 50mm tow ball hook too as it was a euro supplied trailer originally. Its size is for a 24-26ft boat. Might well change it to UK spec axles & hitch system, with a handbrake! whilst making it narrower at the same time.

Bow roller - Ie for pulling the anchor up

What I found re getting her on the plane, you can throttle her up to pop her on the plane at about 18mph but she will accelerate out of that speed & any less throttle she falls off again. There are no markings on the prop so defining its size might not be easy. The prop does need some fettling as it has a few scars. I'm tempted to try some fins on the outdrive, its an inexpensive thing to trial trial.


Todays job is new water pump, backflush the coolers etc & a once over mechanically.

What you have described about your planning speed, and hard to hold 18 mph, all sounds pretty normal. Just keep the engine trimmed all the way down at low speeds. You can use a little bit of trim-up at higher speeds, but these boats do not tolerate a lot of trim-up when planed off.

Some users have complained about bad handling with a fin installed (doel-fin or similar), and removed them. Other users have touted that a High-5 prop does wonders for acceleration and low speed planing / speed holding.

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

Last summer, I bought an OMC SST Propeller 14.5X19 stainless steel on eBay. It made a ton of difference in performance, and allowed the boat to get out of the hole much quicker and helped tremendously with fuel economy over aluminum prop. I can stay on plane, with two adults and 3 small children, at around 16-17 mph if calm. Most of the time I cruise at 22-23mph because of chop and having family on board. That's about 2300 RPM or so. 3000 RPM is 30-31MPH.

As others have said, I find that trimming up very much at low speeds makes the boat porpoise. It is a bit of trial and error and a few hours of running time to figure out what the boat likes with different loads. Trim tabs also help tremendously and I use them just to level off the pitch. Perhaps smart tabs will be a good cost effective solution. Overall though the stainless OEM prop has made a huge difference and was worth every penny.

_________________
1988 215 Sundowner 5.7L OMC

Well she has now had a thorough check over,

Thermostat checked & tested all working fine, I also drilled out the stat housing ports where they had crusted up inside (might be worth doing if your ever in there)

Battery relocated under the pilot seat & rewired, repositioned the kill switch under the rear deck hinged cushion.

Checked all the cable linkages for tension & binding all good, lubed up the control lever mechanism. Checked & adjusted the cable settings, nice lovely smooth shifting, yet to test in the water of course. The EAS system appears to simply stall the engine full stop, I'm sure its supposed to just reduce the rpm's anyone know much about this system?

Rewired some of the electrics as a lot of the ancillaries eg fish finder, depth sounder/alarm, VHF etc were on with the ignition & not switched. Now switched so the alarm does'nt go off all the time in the garage!

Cleaned the carpets up & upholstery etc, she's looking very tidy.

Sussed out where all the bungs/drainage ports go as they were pretty gunged up. Though all fairly dry in there.

Tried out the Oxalic acid for cleaning the yellow staining on the white GRP - My word that stuff is amazing!! having previously tried every chemical under the sun on previous boats this stuff is the mutts nuts. Mop on warm, leave for 15 mins wash off & whiteness restored. Amazingly easy!!

Found a slight fopar in the cuddy floor, a table fitting was/is fitted & upon investigation some muppet dug into the lower stringer to fit it. A minor repair might be in order to fix this long term.

Ready for an AM trip Poole & the Bournemouth seafront airshow Shall get some pics

Lol you have to do a little translating for me from English English to American English....What's a fopar (screw up?) mutts nuts (here that would refer to a dog's manly parts)

Anyway...based on 12 years of OMC Cobra ownership and maintenance...

Impeller (raw water pump nicely located in the rear of the upper gear housing)
When you I replace one of these, I do the following tests to make sure all is clear:
1) with the impeller housing off, hook up the water muffs to the lower unit. Hold the muffs tight to the lower unit (lol in American English now that's funny) and have someone turn on the water. Water should spurt out the right hand opening of the impeller mount area on the upper gear housing. This tells you that the water intakes are not clogged and the water tube gaskets are probably fine.
2) go up to the engine, disconnect the raw water intake hose at the thermo housing. Stick your garden hose in that hose and clamp it so it can't pop out and spray water all over the engine. Turn on the water and go to the back of the boat. Water should spurt out of the left hand opening in the impeller mount area. This tells you that there are no blockages in the raw water intake line or P/S cooler.
3) repeat the same with each exhaust manifold hose. Make sure you get good flow of water out of the bottom of the transom mount. This tells you that the outlets of the risers/manifolds are not clogged. Flow should be equal from side to side.
4) you already checked the passages in the thermo housing but that's what I'd say to do next.
5) OK when you replace the impeller, make sure that the passage for the little nipple in the housing is clear. This allows the impeller to easily prime when you put the boat in the water.
6) When you install the housing, it is possible for that o-ring gasket to get out of place and that will cause a water leak and air leak when the boat gets on plane. I have found that the sticky OMC/BRP triple guard grease holds that in place better than the gasket sealer.
7) after the installation, leave the cover off and run it on the water hose. Pull the little hose off the nipple, water should shoot out. If not clear it with compressed air. Make sure there are no water leaks around the housing. At all.

Normal operating temps with a 160* thermostat should be about 160-165, it will go up to 175 after coming off plane, but will come back down after idling a few minutes. I use an IR temp gun to monitor temps, the risers will usually be at about 100* idling and will go as high as 135* right after coming off plane. If they are hitting 160* that's too hot and an indication that you have either lowered raw water flow or clogging in the riser outlets.

For the ESA, well it should not stall the engine. On a properly functioning Cobra system, if your engine is idling at 600 when you activate the ESA it will drop to about 400-450 rpms. If its not in good tune it can stall. So a complete tune up and carb adjustment (idle mixture, idle speed) may be in order. If it stalls then it may stall shifting out of gear on water.

Other maintenance: Very important to remove the drive once a season. You will:
1) Check the bellows for water and gear oil (water=new bellows, gear oil=new imput shaft seal).
2) Check the gimble bearing for smooth movement and grease it while turning by hand.
3) Check the u-joints for stiffness/looseness, grease them and look for water/rust coming out in the grease that=new u-joints
4) Clean out the area behind the shifter bell crank in the pivot housing (bell housing). Pack that area with OMC triple guard grease, it helps the bellcrank not get sticky.
5) Coat the driveshaft splines with triple guard
6) when reinstalling the drive, coat the gasket on both sides with OMC gasket sealer that helps keep water out of #4.

Shifting, it should shift easy. If its stiff then you need to get into the shift cable checks and adjustment which I've covered here a few times. Too much to type. A good Cobra shifts with 2 finger pressure......

good luck and happy boating......

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks for the info - & sorry about the "English'isms"

Another sea trial today post battery relocation & addition of doel fins/hydroplanes. Flipping hell a different boat!!!

She now planes happily at 13-14mph gps & holds it at 2000-2200rpm, much less bowlift during holeshot. The difference is simply amazing, it genuinely appears a completely different boat. Plus today we started with 20mph winds & ended up in 40mph plus winds & some rather rough conditions which it handles quite well, we did get quite wet though!

Will be going over the waterworks again as it was'nt flushing though on the muffs post run, it did'nt get hot running on the water but will investigate that & clear out all the other waterways.

Gearshift is now extremely light & easy so no issues there, will give her a tune up though before looking into the idle speed gear switch system.

Running on the cuff, you will not usually see water coming out the prop exhaust because most of it drains out the bottom of the exhaust bellows (if the bellows has slots cut in the bottom). Hard to see it because of all the extra water spraying from the cuffs, but you can reach your hand down there and feel the warm/hot water coming out. If it does come out the prop, that's fine too.

_________________

"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqm32ur2e0ze0 ... a.jpg?dl=0
What mine looked like....
90% comes out from under the transom mount, a tiny bit from the prop, sometimes....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Bit of an update folks


Sussed out the water pump issue's it was corrosion behind the wear plate causing it to be bent, and water was obviously bypassing the wear plate, so new pump assembly fitted & all working fine. I refitted the water squirter/air release pipe so it comes out of the cover a bit like an outboard now, so we have a pee tale. Also fitted clear hoses from the stat to the risers so one can do a visual check on water flow, seems to work quite well Fitted a new stat too.

Next up tuning the old 5.7 boat anchor.....
It starts up fine from cold but runs lumpy & does not like idling down around the 600-1000 rpm range, been like this all the time so far. So a new set of plugs & timing set to 10deg so far, our standard gas here in the UK is 95ron so quite a bit better than standard US spec stuff. But 6-12deg either way its still lumpy. Its has some form of electronic ignition so no points to mess with. It's running a Holly 4 Barrel carb & have reset/played with the settings but still no joy. Timing gun suggests all plug leads are getting sparks ok. Any suggestions?? Might do a compression check to confirm any issues, as it runs fine above these revs.

If I'm honest I'm not too fussed about the 5.7 running sweetly, just so long as it works for the next few months as over the winter the engine will be pulled & I'll be fitting a BMW M57 3.0 Turbo Diesel lump in there for more torque & hopefully way better fuel useage. More on this plan later.

Tomorrow is full on polishing day so will get some pics for ya all

Pictures of the old tub now she has had a polish & clean





My modification of the cuddy lid & restoration of the dash panel





And the underside gets a polish too I have been very busy with the elbow grease

I found the leak on a test run this evening, which is only apparent in the water. The riser to cowhorn connection is leaking, the jubilee clip has seen better days, looks a simple enough job to solve.



This was our little test trip Swanage this evening



& the obligatory sunset over Old Harry's Rocks on the way back to Poole Harbour