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Starter Problem
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Author:  depthcharge [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Starter Problem
Having problem starting my '03 5.0 GL Sundowner. She'll start sometimes but, others will not.
The ignition switch was replaced at the beginning of last season. No problem till the end of the season.
Shut down engine at the dock. Went to restart..no go. Loaded out by hand and went to the parking lot.
Checked all fuses they were fine. Adjusted the outdrive to take her home and decided to try one more time.
She started right up. Put her back in and played all day, no problem. Went to winterize her and the same thing
Happened. Was told there is an ignition/trim relay mounted on top of the engine. Could this be the problem and
where exactly is it located?
Author:  RotaryRacer [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
What does it do when you turn the key?

Things to check:

Is it neutral?...neutral safety switch.

Starter solenoid

Grounds. Check to make sure all grounds are tight and free of corrosion.
Author:  alex8q4 [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
Random issues like this often end up being the result of poor grounding.
Author:  LouC [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
I had a similar problem to this a few years back. It can be the ignition switch, the assist solenoid which on the older models is by the trim relays on the upper rear of the engine (at least on my OMC it is) or the starter solenoid itself. What I found was that the exhaust manifold drain was leaking a bit of salt water right on the terminals of the solenoid on the starter. It rusted it up so bad I had to re-terminate the wires and replace the solenoid. I now coat the drain plug with OMC gasket sealer and make sure it does not leak. And cover the terminals with OMC triple guard grease after tightening down the nuts. Also trace back your engine ground wire to the bell housing and make sure its not rusted either.

What engine package do you have, Merc or Volvo?

if you go over to the forums at iboats....there are I/O forums, in the adults only section (not anything off color, just copyrighted stuff) there is trouble shooting for both Merc and Volvo starting systems. Look around I'm sure you'll find it. A test light or volt meter is your friend. You need power to the ign switch and then power from the switch to the assist solenoid, then to the starter solenoid. A problem at any of these spots, or a ground problem, can cause intermittent starting problems.
Author:  rpengr [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
Lets add the Safety Kill Switch into the list of things to check.
Author:  LouC [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
rpengr wrote:
Lets add the Safety Kill Switch into the list of things to check.

Yep, jiggle the shift lever the next time it does not start because that switch has to close to send the current from the ignition switch to the assist solenoid. As in if you shut the engine off with the shift lever in gear, then shifted to neutral, unless its really in neutral, the current won't get from the ignition switch to the assist solenoid.
Author:  rpengr [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
For the Safety Kill Switch, I am referring to the switch with a lanyard that you are supposed to attach to the driver (so it shuts the engine off if he is thrown overboard).

If the plastic clip that keeps the switch pulled out is deformed or worn thin, it could cause intermittent problems. Just make sure it's all the way on and secure.
Author:  LouC [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
woops thought you meant neutral safety switch. but same outcome if its not working....
Author:  depthcharge [ Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
The engine is GM and the drive is Volvo. Seemed to me the trim makes a difference whether
it cranks or not. Does anyone know if or where this ignition/trim relay is located??
Author:  alex8q4 [ Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
Do you have power anywhere else when it will not start?

I know the trim does not work... Do your guages move when you turn the key? Lights work?
Author:  NiagaraChillin [ Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
RotaryRacer wrote:
What does it do when you turn the key?

This question really needs to be answered before we speculate further.
Does it click? Does absolutely nothing happen? Do your gauges move? Does anything else work (radio, lights, horn, etc)? Did you try the big red button (breaker) on the starboard manifold? Wiggle the key back and forth (has worked for me in the past)? Safety lanyard checked?
Author:  depthcharge [ Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
Yes, there is power everywhere else. No, no clicking or anything that is familiar to my car when it's starter is going out.
Yes, I have checked the dead man, neutral switch and connections at the battery. I am looking for A relay switch.
This switch is supposed to actuate both the ignition and trim. Separately of course. Without a schematic I am lost.
Author:  LouC [ Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
Ok one way you can figure this out...
Find the starter solenoid on the starter. It will have three wires connected to terminals. One very thick red wire is the positive cable from the battery. The other smaller wire ( probably black) goes from the starter around the engine to the alternator. The thin yellow/red stripe wire is the one that sends current from the assist solenoid to the starter solenoid on the engine. If you can follow this wire bsck from the starter solenoid it should lead you to the assist solenoid.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engine-r ... ing-system

Scroll down to the schematic, where the Merc diagram has a slave solenoid, Volvo uses a relay, you're looking for something that looks like an aux light relay for an automotive application. Follow back the yellow/red stripe wire to it from the starter solenoid. Check for voltage as per the procedure in this thread.

BTW note that if you have wingnuts holding the battery terminals on the battery, this alone can cause this problem because they get loose. Either use stainless nyloc nuts, or make up new cables with marine quality automotive clamps. That's what I did when I did the dual battery system about 8 years ago.

The reason why they use a slave solenoid or relay is to prevent the voltage drop you would have from running the 12V from the battery all the way up to the ignition switch back to the starter. This way the ignition switch only has to supply enough current to turn on the assist solenoid.

You need to know your model # and go to www.volvopentastore.com
and look up under the right model # for the engine the part.

I can't decode Volvo's incredibly arcane model numbering system, but this looks like it, starter relay part #6...not saying this is yours but probably similar. On my OMC I replaced the assist solenoid and the starter solenoid and never had another problem.

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Engine-H ... _id.790289
Author:  rpengr [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Starter Problem
depthcharge wrote:
Yes, there is power everywhere else. No, no clicking or anything that is familiar to my car when it's starter is going out.
Yes, I have checked the dead man, neutral switch and connections at the battery. I am looking for A relay switch.
This switch is supposed to actuate both the ignition and trim. Separately of course. Without a schematic I am lost.

Sorry, I am not aware of such a relay.

I do have a complete Four Winns Manual PDF file for 1999 Horizons & Sundowners from 20-24'. It has wiring schematics in the back.
PM me if you would like a copy by email (5.3MB files size).

Ray
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