www.iFourWinns.com

Hi folks, I'm a new owner of a 2003 Sundowner 205. I used to own an 18' Larson Senza bowrider with a 4.3 litre, 205 Merc in her, which was great for day trips and towing the kids around. In fact, I got a little spoiled with tons of power and a quick jump out of the hole...

We love our new Sundowner - especially the cockpit, and my wife and I are looking forward to our first overnighter, either on Georgian Bay, our winding ur way up the Severn River!

The 205 has a 5.0 litre, 220 Volvo Penta in her, and I've noticed its pretty slow out of the hole and getting up on plane - it has a four-blade prop (not sure of the pitch), and it takes about 7-8 seconds to get upon plane. I'm also having a hard time trimming it up while cruising (usually about 3000-3200 RPM) - it porpoises pretty routinely unless I've got the trim full down - which makes me wonder how efficiently I'm running the engine (especially with today's gas prices!!!)

My question is about trim tabs - can anyone tell me if you've installed hydraulic trim tabs, and whether they've made a difference? I also wondered about a hydrofoil on the outdrive (as a more afordable option) - My Sundowner has the swim platform off the stern.

Any help/advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

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2005 Sundowner
2008 Highlander V6

Your porposing is making me question if you are completely trimmed down when you start out. Have you checked to make sure your outdrive is all the way down. maybe you are an obstruction or an issue with the hydralics. Do you have a trailer switch that needs to be tweaked?

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2001 Horizon 260 - 7.4 Volvo GSI DP

I second the question re whether it is fully trimmed down when you think it is. Don't trust the trim gauge, the senders are notoriously unreliable! I had a '99 225 which had only a slightly longer hull than the 205, admittedly a DP drive, the drive really had to be trimmed all the way down for maximum acceleration onto the plane. It had to be trimmed up some way to get max speed, but I never experienced porpoising. It does sound like the nose of your boat is very much in the air. Do you tend to have a lot of weight at the rear of the boat?

My current 245 DP with trim tabs, on the other hand, really benefits from having the tabs down in terms of getting on the place (and balancing it side to side as it tends to list to Starboard due to the dual battery weight). It doesn't respond to outdrive trim anywhere as much as on the smaller boat.

Graham

Thanks guys - I must admit, I didn't think to check whether there might be an obstruction! When put the trim down, I hold the trim button down until I can hear the hydraulics stop, and the trim gauge tells me that it is full down, but it could be misreading - I"ll have to check it out next weekend when I'm back at the cottage.

I don't have anything particularly heavy in the stern (unless by that, you mean me!!) but I also notice a slight listing depending on the weight distribution of the passengers.

On the assumption that my drive isn't obstructed, and is going down fully, are trim tabs a good alternative? How much do they cost, and any advice on brand, installation, etc?

Graham, you mention that your outdrive trim isn't as responsive as a smaller boat - do trim tabs take the outdrive "out of play"?

Larry

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2005 Sundowner
2008 Highlander V6

To be honest, with my current boat with trim tabs, I could almost do without being able to trim the drive, it seems to perform best with the outdrive close to being all the way down. Any tab deployment above about 25 mph does slow it down. Their main useful effect for me is to push the bow down when starting off, so the boat gets on the plane quicker. Plus sometimes compensating for marginal balance port to starboard.

With the 205 / V8 compared to the 225 or 245 also with a V8, the weight of the engine, drive and batteries is proportionally more compared to the weight of the boat, and it's all at the stern so maybe it does tend to weight the stern down more compared to the heavier boats.. You could try storing any loose bits you carry around in the cuddy. to weigh it down more at the bow.

My tabs are Bennett, factory fitted. As I boat in salt water, I also added zinc anodes to the tabs. I retrofitted the electronic trim tab indicators; very useful. They've worked without fault for over 3 years. "Standard" shape Bennett tabs may not fit your boat due to the pods either side fouling them; they probably make specific tabs for FW.

Graham

Hi Swansea
I have an identical hull, but with 260 HP mercruiser V8.
Its a SLOW jump outa the hole unless the boat is almost empty. I have pondered trim tabs, but never bothered, as I dont think they would help with hole shot. Once underway, definately. WHen wakeboarding etc, if observing, i will often sit up in the opening for the windscreen. good view, easy to communicate with driver, and good for weight distribution.

If we have 2 families on board, ie 4 adults and 5 or 6 kids ( under 10), then i often ask one of the other adults to move forward when taking off. The 205 is very stern heavy.

I find that I always have to have the drive / leg trimmed practically all the way down for 90% of the time. If its very smooth, ie quiet day on the river, them we may trim it a fair way up, but generally on any other surface, we just porpise too much. However, a lot of our boating is on fairly rough / high traffic waterways.

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If I don't deploy the trim tabs, my 245 is definately slower out of the hole, by some margin. They really do push the bow down and the boat stays level when accelerating.

With a potentially more stern heavy boat, they should have even more of an effect, it's a shame there's no way to find out for sure without buying/ fitting them! Before I bought my 225, I looked at a 205 that had a single prop SX, drive that boat had trim tabs fitted. I never had a sea trial though.

Graham

Well, I guess its nice to know that others have the same issue! So far, I've only had three adults in the boat at any one time - with my 220 hp, having a full load may be a problem!

I guess I can live with a slow hole shot - its maybe the price of a heavy stern... But I do find the porposing frustrating - both in terms of comfort, and fuel economy. I've always thought that having the trim full down - bringing the bow down in the water - was inefficient as the boat wasn't balancing nicely on plane. On Georgian Bay, the water can get pretty rough and putting the trim down helped smooth the bumps a little, but the price was the engine worked harder and gas consumption rose.

Wondering if there is anyone else - especially with the same hull - has instaled trim tabs and whether you feel the expense is worth it? I looked them up in the West Marine catalogue, and they're probably about $1,000 - $1,500 installed

What about those hydrofoils that you bolt on to the outdrive - do they really have any effect?

Thanks all,

Larry

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2005 Sundowner
2008 Highlander V6

I've had good results adding a hydrofoil. It definitely helped me get out of the hole. I'm sure the trim tabs would be nice for balancing side to side, but for $70, the fin is a great value! (see the end of the "What Prop?" thread)

Andy

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'88 Sundowner 205
4.3L OMC

youre right, but youre wrong. In general trimming down will push the nose too far into the water and increase drag / efficiency. Specifically for the 205 though, given the transom angle, weight distibution, prop etc, I believe full trim or near abouts provides the optimum hull angles for all but dead calm conditions. Let the porposing be a guide as to efficient hull angle.

prop types can also impact on hole shot. do a search here, or most likely on http://www.boatingabc.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/forums/2/1/Engines_Drives_Props.html

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Hi folks - well, I'm back from vacation, and wanted to report back on my experience. Took the boat on a very nice, four-day trip up through the Trent-Severn system in Ontario - what a fantastic way to spend time!! Before we left, I'd taken the boat out for a few short spins around the cottage in Georgian Bay, and tried some different things, but still frustrated - especially with a full load (I did check, and no obstruction on the outdrive).

My mechanic told me that a client with a similar problem recently installed Smart Tabs, and he raved about the perfomance boost - solid hole shot, and cruise on plane easily at 2500 rpm. So, armed with his recommendation, I installed them (myself - it's a pretty weird feeling drilling holes in your new boat's transom below the water line...).

I noticed (only) a slight perfomance improvement - a little better hole shot, and a little more flexibility on trim settings - but not nearly what I hoped for, nor expected. Maybe I'm expecting too much, but I was hoping for something more noticeable.

I guess I either stick with what I have, or consider installing hydraulic tabs - I suspect it will be the former, as sinking another $1,000 into this issue isn't going to get me what I think I want.

Other than this, the boat is fantastic and we love the look, feel, and configuration - so many people mentioned what a cool cockpit for a relatively small boat (compared to many of the boats we encountered on the trip!!)

Cheers all,

Larry

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2005 Sundowner
2008 Highlander V6

Are you still porposing after the smart tabs?

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2001 Horizon 260 - 7.4 Volvo GSI DP

Depends. Flat or relatively calm water is fine - I can work the trim up a bit and play around to get the best angle - see the RPM meter jump, and feel the boost. But on more choppy or rough water (or with more than three people in the cockpit) still have to have it full down.

Frankly, not sure if hydraulic tabs will make any measureable difference either.....and worried that plunking down another $1K is worth the risk?

So, I think I may have to simply be satisfied with current performance, relax, sit back and enjoy the ride...

Any further advice humbly accepted!

Larry

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2005 Sundowner
2008 Highlander V6

PS - local Four Winns dealer also said that changing the prop might also work - so I will look into that (thanks to those who suggested the links)

Cheers

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2005 Sundowner
2008 Highlander V6

I would stay well clear of using hydrofoils on a outdrive or any outboard in general. Using hydrofoils put far more strain on the drive due to the pressure of the water pulling on the drive.
I have now noticed that with a new engine and/or outdrive if you put Hydrofoils on the outdrive/outboard the manufacturers warranty becomes invalid due to the extra strain on it.

My friend has had a personal experience of this as he thought of putting them on then had trouble with his Yamaha outboard and they refused to repair it under warranty and lets say the cost of having it repaired easily outweighed the gain of them!!

I would personally not recommend them, but everyones for their own.

P.S Has anyone installed trim tabs on a 205 Sundowner as I have also have one and played with the idea of having trim tabs??

Rob

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Rob Sherry
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1999 Sundowner 205