www.iFourWinns.com

A word of caution to anyone with a 245 (or 255 ) Sundowner from around 2003 onwards. The large stern locker, the one that goes across the boat, has a lid with a wooden core. The latch/ handle fits into a 2" hole bored through the locker lid. Whilst cleaning things up this weekend, I took the latch off and found that on mine the 2" hole has not been sealed at all. The wooden core is exposed, wet and starting to rot. There is a rubber seal, but clearly some water still gets by and into the core. I've caught mine just in time I think, the wet wood/ rot extends a maximum of about 2", so I'll be able to fill it with epoxy and make sure it's sealed properly before I put the latch back on. I hope they were more careful when they cut out the holes in the transom for the transom shield !

I recommend all 245 Sundowner owners check for this in case all the lids were made like this ( it might also be an issue for other models using the same stainless latch/ handle, which is designed to go through thick sections, so those lids could also have wood in there.)

I also recently removed the cabin hatch to sort out a leak that appeared very late last season. Again, the wooden core was exposed but thankfully it was not wet. Judging from the number of screw holes and chipped gel coat ( which I repaired) , it looks like they has at least 2 attempts to fit the hatch in the factory, the final one with a liberal application of silicone at the forward end applied from inside the cabin !. It's that silicone that finally gave up the ghost after a few years. The foam seal that comes with the hatch could not do it's job because the hole for the hatch was not cut absolutely central in the recess in the deck, so it wasn't touching the deck at the forward end ! It is now correctly bedded in with a high performance polyurethane- silicone sealant on the flange.

Graham

Graham can you take a picture of this lid? I believe my 225 has a different design....

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

I've just looked at a 2005 brochure, the 205 ( 215) and 225 lid (for the locker on the port side) seems to use the same plastic latches as the anchor locker lid ( i.e. not cored construction). The lid on mine is designed for walking on, probably the reason it is cored. to keep the weight down; it is a fairly big lid. Even so, it is quite heavy and I'm sure a plastic latch would break if the lid was lifted using it! I can see the 285 has the same type of latch, as does the Horizon 280 so they are probably cored hatches.

From the photos in the brochure, the hatch lid in the 205/225 walkthrough also uses the same plastic latch as the anchor locker lid;, so the lid is probably not cored ;the span is not very wide, so they could get away with a non-cored construction.

Graham

The bolted on extended swim platform also appears to be wood cored ( with no sealant on the screws for the hinges for the hatch/ ladder cover). One pilot was hole drilled all the way through and not sealed where it comes out of the lower face of the ESP!

Graham

2004 Sundowner 205 ( now 215)
timber free on any lids, locker hatches, roof tops !!!

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Same on my '04 225, I just checked the ski locker by taking out the latch......wood free

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

Check your ladder mounting on the ESP as well (see the thread in the Vista section !).

Graham

I had to replace the screws on the ladder door, I have it noted when I get time to check the storage door on the ESP.

Are they all wood cored ESPs?

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2007 358 T-5.7GXi IB
Previous Boats
'08 H240, '08 V318, '04 268, '04 225

I don't know 100%, but I would imagine so to get the required stiffness at reasonable weight (and cost, I can't see them using carbon fibre ).

Some good news; the rot in the ESP ladder holes only extended in a few mm, I have bored out the top grp and wood to 15mm and will fill the holes with thickened epoxy when the good wood had dried out a bit. These areas will be completely covered by the ladder, so they don't have to be 100% perfect and shiny. Interestingly, there were 6 holes on the lower face and only 5 on the top!

Graham

I have to say I'm amazed that they aren't using Greenwood XL (guaranteed not to rot) Stingray has been using Greenwood lumber for years, and we don't consider them to be on par with Four Winns (And I can vouch for that since I owned two of them).

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Brett DiMichele

Maybe the design intent specifies a rot resistant wood, be used but for whatever reason if it's not available, they use whatever comes to hand. Like the original 1/2" mild steel bolts holding my ESP onto the transom; I'm sure they should have been stainless, the nuts used were!

As I mentioned, the area of rot in the ESP only extended in a few mm from the holes, I'd have expected more if the wood was untreated. The storage lid was a lot worse, but the hole was a lot bigger and probably a lot more water got in.

Graham

I have a 2004 245 Sundowner. I was starting to get water entering into the swim platform when the seals started to separate around the two oval shaped hand hold cutouts in the middle of the surface. My concern was wood rot. I brought the boat to the Four Winns dealer to have them recore the fiberglass with new wood and reseal everything. This would have involved cutting the whole bottom side out of the ESP first and then reglassing it with new wood. Before they started cutting, they figured out that the ESP does not have any plywood. It is simply fiberglass sandwich construction with a little bit of an air gap. My platform has one drain hole drilled, but water was actually leaking out of the seals on the hand holds. I let the ESP drain and dry out over the winter. This Spring I put high quality silicone around the gaps in the seals (on the underside). Hopefully that holds for awhile.

Now that I read this post, I'm going to inspect my ski locker!