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power trim
https://www.smwebhead.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3778		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mtshain [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  power trim
Hi all,

I'm new to the forum, I have a 1997 245 Sundowner..Seeing if anyone here has had the same issue I'm having. My power trim on my throttle has stopped working. Now I have found if I push in the trailer button I can use the trim on the throttle no problem raising and lowering..

I also noticed that when I do just use the switch on the throttle that the unit on the back of the transom in the engine compartment does light up so I know I have a good connection from the throttle buttons to that unit but from there to the out drive something is not registering..

Could this be a bad relay?? If so does anybody know exactly where the relay is located..
Author:  Graham R [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Welcom to a fellow Sundowner 245 owner!

There are 2 relays mounted on the trim pump bracket. It may not be one of those though: Is it a Volvo Penta ? If so, sounds like you have the electronic trim limiter unit fitted; the box you can see on the transom. These rely on signals coming in from the trim indicator sender which is a circular disc about 2" in diameter on the starboard side of the outdrive. Normally, those senders have only 2 wires coming out of them, but there are 3 on boats with the trim limit control. My guess it's the sender and that the (centre) white wire has broken off; they are apparently renowned for it !

If it is a faulty sender, replacement is the only option. (you can actually use the cheaper 2 wire sender and bypass the trim limiter if you want to; that way, if the sender fails again as it will someday, you will at least be able to trim the outdrive up and down).

Graham
Author:  mtshain [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Thanks for the info, Yes I have a Volvo penta 5.7L GSI with Dual Prop out drive.
I do recall there being a grouping of wires on the right side of the engine while looking at it that was labeled "trim sender" I also recall there being 3 wires coming out of both sides of that little black rubber contraption that seemed to be sealed and couldn't get it open.

Is this a relatively easy fix do I just cut the wires and splice? I will have to check when I go home tonight.
Author:  Graham R [ Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
If you have good access to the inner transom shield, then changing the sender is not too bad. However, if the rear of your engine compartment is anything like it was on by '99 225, access is very limiited. Also, access on the outside is very limited with the outdrive on the boat.

The 2 pin ( or in you case, 3 pin ) cylindrical connector block is located near the port exhaust manifold. The wires have to be removed from the block. There is a rubber grommet in the transom shield (moulded over the wires), that is retained by a little clip on the inside. which is very easy to lose. The grommet has to be pulled out to the outside. Fitting the new one is the reverse of this process ( there are cable ties on the outside holding the harness to the steel trim lines on the transom shield). You need to ensure there is sufficient slack so that the harness is not strained as the outdrive is turned from side to side.

Is your trim gauge still working? If so, it might be easier just to bypass the trim control unit until the drive is off for yearly routine maintenance. The Clymer manual for 1994-2000 describes the circuitry in chapter 15. They discontinued the use of this unit on the DPS in 1998 or 1999 presumably because it was proving problematic.

Graham.
Author:  audible [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim (help)
Hey everyone. This sounds like my trouble today.

1997 225 Sundowner Volvo Penta 5.7 V-8:
Had a good day out ripping around Mission Bay, San Diego, CA. Looked down and noticed my trim gauge on the dash said full up...and I down in the cruising position. :shock: Tried to trim up or down...would only work with pressing the "safety" trim button below the throttle lever!! :x Got boat on the trailer and trimmed all the way up to pull out...now will not go down. If I push up it makes noise but will not go up because already all the way up, but will not budge down...does not even make noise/click/anything?????? :x On the wall behind the engine there is a black bow with 3 lights...none of the come on...what are these. Please help...I cannot afford a dealer trip right now. :cry:

Seems like every trip out something breaks! :?
Author:  Graham R [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
It's likely that box is the control unit for the electronic drive tilt limiter. If the trim sender fails on boats equipped with that unit, it isn't just the trim gauge that malfunctions. If you have that, your trim sender has 3 wires, not the usual 2.

Volvo stopped using it due to (un) reliability issues; and when it failed, the drive could not be trimmed up and down the full range. I really would be tempted to ditch the control unit, bypass it and fit a 2 wire sender. At least if thesender fails, the trim still works.

Graham
Author:  audible [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Unless someone on this forum could walk me through it or lives neer me and would accept a few cold beers as payment...I not confident in my ability to rewire this yacht??? :|
Author:  Graham R [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
I should be able to make suggetions later in the week; I don't have access to the information I need at the moment.

Graham
Author:  audible [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Thank you Grahm. I have been searching the forum and found posts about stuck valve-checks and big fuses...I only see fuses under the dash/3 red buttons(fuses?)on the fuel unit/and a red soft button on the side of the trim motor????
Author:  Graham R [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
According to the schematics for the limit control system, there are 2 breakers; 60 A, the main engine circuit breaker and fed from that, a 50 A one for the trim system. There is also one 10A fuse ( or 10 A breaker). somewhere between the relay/ pump assembly and the trim control unit.

Battery ==> 60A Engine CB: red wire
60A CB ==> 50A Trim CB: red wire
50A CB ==> Relay/ pump assembly: Red/ blue wire
Relay/ pump assembly ==> 10A CB (or fuse): Red/purple wire.
10A CB ==> trim limit unit: red/purple wire. This is connected via a 3 pin connector, the other 2 wires in that connector being green/white and blue/white. These two wires are the up/ down output from the trim control unit to the relays/motor.

The input from the trim switch to the limitbox is another 3 pin connector, again having the same colour wires. One to take +12v to the trim switch, the other 2 being the up/ down output.

The connection to the trim gauge is the 2 pin connector, with tan/white and black (= ground) wires.

The output to the trim sender is a 3 pin connector, ribbed black, smooth black and white wires.

The single wire, purple/red is the input from the override stitch.

So, you should be able to bypass the trim limit control unit until you can fit a new sender, either a 2 or 3 wire one, if that's what's gone wrong.

Graham
Author:  Captn [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Looks like I have a common issue:
I have a '97 Horizon 240.. Its a 5.7 DUO prop VP

Problem - The rocker switch on the drive selector lever does not raise or lower the outdrive.

The trim indicator always reads full up - doesn't change at all no matter the out-drive position.
The trailer switch works perfectly and raises the out-drive as expected.
On the starboard side of the top of the engine is a three wire rubber plug/skt. It has measured 12v on spade and when linked to either of the other spades the drive raises and lowers full travel.
There is a three wire "tail" coming out the bottom of the drive selector at the helm. I tested this and have proved the rocker switch works in both up and down (checked continuity when switch in each position).
There is three wire cable that runs from the selector wire tail and disappears behind the paneling. This wire must go to somewhere (trim limit box?) and it has 12v on one pin. If I link that to either of the other pins (to simulate the switch) nothing happens.
I am trying to work out if this is a trim sender or issue or a trim limit box issue.....
If I had a schematic for all of this including the internals circuitry of both the trim sender and the trim limit box I would be home free!
Any Ideas?
Author:  taz42169 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Captn wrote:
Looks like I have a common issue:
I have a '97 Horizon 240.. Its a 5.7 DUO prop VP

Problem - The rocker switch on the drive selector lever does not raise or lower the outdrive.

The trim indicator always reads full up - doesn't change at all no matter the out-drive position.
The trailer switch works perfectly and raises the out-drive as expected.
On the starboard side of the top of the engine is a three wire rubber plug/skt. It has measured 12v on spade and when linked to either of the other spades the drive raises and lowers full travel.
There is a three wire "tail" coming out the bottom of the drive selector at the helm. I tested this and have proved the rocker switch works in both up and down (checked continuity when switch in each position).
There is three wire cable that runs from the selector wire tail and disappears behind the paneling. This wire must go to somewhere (trim limit box?) and it has 12v on one pin. If I link that to either of the other pins (to simulate the switch) nothing happens.
I am trying to work out if this is a trim sender or issue or a trim limit box issue.....
If I had a schematic for all of this including the internals circuitry of both the trim sender and the trim limit box I would be home free!
Any Ideas?

Your issue sounds more like a trim sending unit. Cost about $50 and mounts on the side of the outdrive.
Author:  Captn [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Thanks for the reply - I don't quite understand how the trim sender would "lock out" the trim up/down buttons - have I misunderstood something?
Any good ideas where to buy a trim sender? The cheapest I have seen is about $120+. plus shipping!
It still would be really great if someone had a schematic for the trim limit box!
Thanks!
Author:  taz42169 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
Sorry, I may have misunderstood. I thought you were saying your trim gauge wasn't working properly.
Author:  97_245_sd [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: power trim
I think the trim sender does limit the amount of trim angle on the Duo Prop drives (The DP has less allowable trim angle than the SX). That is the third wire on the sender unit in the drive (my SX drive only has two wires from the sender unit). To trim more than the allowed limits you have to use the trailer button to over ride the allowable limits.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can come along and clarify.
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