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Metal cabin frames
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Author:  ScottA [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:50 am ]
Post subject:  Metal cabin frames
Most items on my Sundowner have been not subject to corrosion issues; except for these metal frames that lead into the cuddy cabin and the storage compartment, the boat has been operated reguarly in salt water.
Has anyone else came apon this problem (i noticed a sundowner for sale had this corrosion issue). I have approached the dealers; they have said the stainless screws are reacting with the alloy frames and FW should have coated the screws in lanolin spray or simerlar to stop a reaction and that this problem would occur if the boat was operated in eighter salt or fresh water.
Another dealer stated the frames are covered in gelcoat and it is not durable in a salt enviroment.
Both dealers have described the fix is to powdercoat the frames, but how is this done, how is the old finish removed?. The frame to the storage hatch seems straight forward to remove from the boat, but the one to cabin, is it just undo the screws and pull the frame outward? And the seal piping seems very difficult to remove and or for reuse, as one wold think this would have to be removed for powdercoating.
Any help with this is appreciated

Regards Scott

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Author:  Graham R [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
Scott,

I noticed the white frame of the cabin door on mine (2004 245) is just starting to bubble, at the top. I don't have the storage compartment door/ frame on mine, is that under the sink? ( I always thought it was a wasted opportunity by FW not to have a door into thet cavity !) . The white finish actually looks like powder coating! Corrosion of aluminium will creep underneath a powder coating just as it will under normal paints.

Anyhow, I had the same issue with my frame on my 1999 225; those were painted crackle black, a thin brittle finish with no primer! Apart from the lousy adhesion, the problem was caused by very little radiusing and by the screws they used digging through the paint and then being in direct contact with the metal. The frame just pulls out of the hole after the screws were removed; there was some sealant, not enough to bond it in. The paint on that one was easy to remove. I sanded it bare metal to remove all corrosion, primed it with an acid etch/ chromate primer, 2 coats of underwater primer (International Paint's Primocon, a metallic silver effect, I was almost tempted to leave it that way!), then 2 coats of spray applied satin black. Before doing any painting, I enlarged the screw holes and countersunk them properly, so I could use appropriate countersunk screws which wouldn't damage the paint /contact the sides of the holes, with some vaseline on them. I also radiused all the edges so they would be covered with an adequate layer of paint. I had to destroy the seal to remove it, I just used a foam sealing strip of the appropriate size after it was painted.

I may well do the same with the white one this winter.

If you're going to get yours powder coated, I'd check the radiuses are large and go the hole countersinking route as well.

You will probably also find the paint on the steering wheel boss is bubbling; again, black paint on an aluminium part with no primer!

Graham
Author:  beyond the blue [ Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
They can be re-powder coated after being stripped right back to the metal, they will need to be etch primed first and powdered with full polyester powder ( NOT epoxy powder) any seals will have to be replaced as the powder cures at 200 centigrade. We had a powder coating plant at my works and I did the aluminium swim ladder on my Vista 3 years ago and it still looks good and my boat sits in salt water all year.
Author:  aussie_sundowner [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
hey scott
youre not alone, although i have less paint wearing off then your boats shows, mostly around the cabin door. is it corrosion or just weear / abrasion. As usual, the dealers are wrong. if it was galvanic corrosion (froms/steel screws) it would be around the screws. and as for gelcoating the frames - thats just dumb - but, even if it was possible, gelcoat not liking saltwater....dont tell my hull, its covered in the stuff..


dont worry about removing the old paint - the powder coaters will do it for you - probably just sand blast it off...the frames i think are just alloy, and nothing sticks well unless its prepped properly. maybe you could get some timber pieces !!!
Author:  ScottA [ Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
Thanks for the replies guys,
Looks like powdercoating is an option, will have a search in the phone book to make some inquiries.

Graham- In your opinion do you think i can paint these frames myself and they would hold up well in a salt enviroment.
I have experience spraypainting with aerosol can and can do a good job, but how would the existing paint be stripped, there are some small crevices.
With the seal piping that would have to be replaced, did you get one that fitted into the existing groove or a self adhesive number that sticks over the groove.
What type of supplier would stock this seal
Author:  Graham R [ Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
Yes, removing all the paint is difficult by hand; even when the paint is not well adhered, like mine was. Also, where it's corroded, the surface is rough and the oxide is difficult to remove completely. The etch primer relies on a clean aluminium surface, it does not like the oxide!

If you have access to a powder coater locally who can also prepare the surface properly by bead blasting ( or sand/ grit if they are gentle with it!), I'd be tempted to take that route.

If you want to do it yourself, it might be worth trying a chemical paint strripper that's safe for aluminium. If it doesn't work, a combination of a hot air gun, scrapers and abrasives is all you can do,

After I did mine, I used the boat for a further 2 seasons in salt water, with no signs of any corrosion reappearing. The original showed signs of corrosion after 2 seasons fresh water use, and 1 seasons use in salt water. I used a stick on soft foam rubber seal; it's available in a variety of thicknesses from DIY stores.

Graham
Author:  aussie_sundowner [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
aussie_sundowner wrote:
hey scott
youre not alone, although i have less paint wearing off then your boats shows, mostly around the cabin door. is it corrosion or just weear / abrasion. As usual, the dealers are wrong. if it was galvanic corrosion (froms/steel screws) it would be around the screws. and as for gelcoating the frames - thats just dumb - but, even if it was possible, gelcoat not liking saltwater....dont tell my hull, its covered in the stuff..


dont worry about removing the old paint - the powder coaters will do it for you - probably just sand blast it off...the frames i think are just alloy, and nothing sticks well unless its prepped properly. maybe you could get some timber pieces !!!



how goes the fix scott ?
i just re-read my previous post. clearly i must have been drugged, bound and under duress, because it makes absolutely no sense. /sorry
FWIW, its not galvanic corrosion, but most likely just poor preparation on the aluminium prior to coating originally.
Author:  Graham R [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
The cynic in me says that in my case it wasn't poor preparation prior to painting, but rather no preparation!

Graham
Author:  ScottA [ Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
Hi all,
Have finally got around to powdercoating the door and hatch frames.
Was not to hard at all, managed to source some seal piping that would fit in the groove, but could only get black but looks ok, seems a bit better quality than the fourwinns one.
Thanks to all that contributed to this post
Regards Scott
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Author:  firecadet613 [ Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
Scott that looks fantastic!
Author:  ScottA [ Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
Thanks Firecadet, the cabin frames where the only things that was starting to deteriorate, but all good now.

Regards Scott
Author:  reetblak [ Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
I spray paint aerosol can and experience can do a good job, but how the existing paint must be removed, there are small cracks. With gasket pipe system must be replaced, you have one that is installed in the existing groove or a number of self-adhesive, which protrudes over the groove.
Author:  aussie_sundowner [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
looks great scott
where'd the seal piping rubber come from, i might follow your lead and get mine done after summer
scott
Author:  ScottA [ Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal cabin frames
Hi Scott,

Hope you are getting in lots of boating during summer with all the hot weather we have been having.

Got the seal from Schegel P/L at Chipping Norton, a very helpfull felow just cut me a couple of metres.

Reetblak,

I had the existing paint sandblasted and the seal is a t section that fits neatly into the groove

Regards Scott
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