www.iFourWinns.com

This will be my first boat, and I really like the layout/engine options of the 245 Sundowner. This will be on Lake St. Clair here in Metro Detroit.

I wanted to get a couple opinions from current and former owners.

1. Any serious downside to the Ford 351 / Volvo powertrain? I can get a mid 90's with moderate hours (3-400) for close to $10k. A late 90's with almost the exact same hours and options is closer to $20k. Thats a really big difference in monthly payment, but if the Ford combo is terrible for some reason I will suck it up.

2. Any common problem areas to look out for? I'll most likely have a survey done regardless, but it's nice to know if there was a design flaw somewhere that will have to be fixed.

3. Would you buy your 245 again if you to do it again? I have looked at the Vista's also, but I dont kow how much overnighting we will be doing, and the extra weight & gas of the Vista may be wasted on me. Plus, it seems like the Vista is quite a bit slower than a similarly powered Sundowner.

Thanks, any and all opinions are welcome.

To each their own, but buying an older boat will always come with challenges even if properly maintained just because they're older. The Ford 351w is a great engine but it was built in a time when gas was cheap. Economy and fuel savings was not in it's design. It's cruise GPH is a few more gallons then a modern Sundowner of the same size, like a 2005 era 205. It's also about 10mph slower in the top speed compared to a newer boat. Low low 40s.

Flaws? If it's wood/carpet deck search for rot. The gauge cluster is junk. There's plenty of threads on here how to replace it. The back to back seating is worthless. Nobody wants to ride in a boat facing the back having their head hit the person sitting the other way. It's also too low, unless you're 6'8 you'll have a hard time seeing over the bow. Unless you're 90lb 5'0 tall, you can't lay in them. I have those seats in my '00 H180. I'm 6'2 and I stand to drive the boat, I can't see crap sitting. I'm always in the lookout for a matching captain's chair to replace the folding thing with that won't break the bank.

Otherwise?
If the 245 fits your budget and needs how they stand... as long as there's no rot and it checks out good from the survey go for it! This summer I'm selling my H180 to get a mid 2000's 205. Love the cabin!

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1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

You have to keep in mind a mid 90s is now 15 years old, which means that individual condition is more important than any other factor, you can find very nice boats that age and ones that are ready for the junkyard.
First you have to do a hull, deck, stringers (what you can see of em) inspection for rot and delaminated fiberglass. If you don't know how to inspect these points, then find some one who does and expect to pay something for their knowledge, well worth it. Fiberglass/wood rot repairs can be difficult and very expensive.
Next all the mechanical stuff needs to be gone over. Figure on getting a good sterndrive mechanic to check out the engine, transom mount, steering and outdrive. Volvo drives are good but expensive to repair.
Finally, Ford engines are no longer used in marine applications. You want to find out if any important parts are No Longer Available (NLA). Such as ignition modules, fuel injection parts if so equipped and exhaust manifolds.

I would advise anyone to buy the best condition boat they can afford. It's cheaper that way in the long run.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

We love our 245.

Ours is a '97 with the 5.7 Chevy block, I don't know about the Ford based engines. As far as power goes though, ours is the Gi, 250 hp with throttle body injection and I'll call in marginally powered. It is a pretty heavy boat and the hole shot is not great. I did find out mine has a different prop than the factory recommended so once the boat is in the water I'm gonna check WOT rpm and see if I can go a pitch lower to get a better hole shot. I'd love to have a Duo Prop and would seriously suggest looking for a boat that has it and/or an engine with more hp. My boat specs list top speed as 40-43 mph. I've only run there a few times, usually cruise around 30-36 mph and the boat seems pretty comfortable there.

Definitely check the floor if it is wood, fiberglass liner was an option in the late 90's. I've got the auto style dash, though it is not VDO branded. I think the VDO came in a year later. Haven't had any problems yet...... A few of us have had anchor locker leaks into the v-berth storage compartments. Not a big deal, some silicone inside the anchor locker solved that issue.

We have the U-wrap seating with two captains chairs and love the layout.

We have seriously considered moving up to a 268 Vista but have not. We got our boat for around $14k 3 years ago. A Vista with A/C and genny is around $40k. We just can't justify that increase for the chance we might overnight on the boat. I have young kids and they like to nap in the cuddy and we boat on Lake Michigan so I feel better with the closed bow on big water. The 245 is still easy for water sports, some of the Vistas don't have a ski tow eye so you have to use a bridle to attach a tow rope.


By the way, you can go on the Four Winns website, customer service, past product information to get old sale brochures, specs, and boat owners manuals.

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Terry
Current: 07 Crownline 255 CCR cuddy - 350 Mag MPI/B3 "Casi Cielo"

Previous:97 245 Sundowner 5.7GI/SX

Tow vehicle: 1986 GMC 2500 Camper Special 454/TH400

Right now over the USA there's a few 205/225 Sundowners (2003-2005) in the 18-22k mark. The only difference between the two is 1ft in length, and all that went into the berth. Most have duo props.

For the price, you can't beat em. Factory swim platform, wrap around seating, head, shower, wet bar, all sorts of goodies that 245 doesn't have. They also top speed about 10mph faster and get better fuel consumption then that 245. Better hull.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

Thanks for the tips guys, I appreciate it.

24' is just about the minimum I am looking for. Its going to be on Lake St. Clair, and the average waves of 2-3 feet. I really want something in the 26-27' range, but fuel costs and storage go up exponentially it seems.

I asked specifically about the Ford motors because I am a Mustang guy. I know my way around the Ford 302/351 really really well, but I've never worked on Chevy 350's. I know the power & fuel consumption is a little worse than the modern 5.7's, but I can cruise for a LONG time with an extra $10k for gas in my pocket.

The wife is being stubborn about wanting an enclosed head and small microwave/sink, so I might be forced into a Vista..........

Look at the 238 Vistas. They are all over the place in minty condition for 19k.

_________________
1981 Columbia 8.7
2015 Yamaha FZR - 87mph - sold
2006 Yamaha GP1300R - sold
2003 Chaparral 215 SSI - sold
2009 Stingray 195CS - sold
2000 Four Winns H180 - sold
1976 O'day Daysailer II - sold
Rick's Four Winns H180 Mods/Upgrade Thread

We just bought a 1994 Four Winns Sundowner with the Ford engine. Its rated at 47 WOT according to spec's but have not yet put it into the water. Fuel burn rate is 13 GPH at 3500 rpm ( about 33 ) according to the specs. Guy I bought it from was from Lansing and used it mostly on Lake Michigan and he said the hull design handled the 2-3 footers with much better than similar sized boats. Unlike Ric, I have 4 kids, and they have friends, so the boat is going to be running with 6-8 probably most of the time, so that seating combo is perfect for us.

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1994 235 Sundowner w/351 Ford

In my area you can find a 97+ model with the 5.0 or the 5.7 liter GM motors for 10k or less. I paid 9k for mine 2 years ago, it did have over 500hrs on it but the boat was/is spotless. I have the EFI 5.7 w/ the VP DUO PROP. and those DUO PROPS make a huge difference. I'm not sure I would have got the boat without them. The Sundowners are somewhat of the heavier side and w/ a full load, mine it does a decent job pulling a wakeboard/skiier. I couldn't imagine having a smaller motor in a boat that size. I'd wait to find atleast a 5.7 and the EFI makes it so much easier to start. GL

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1996 4 Winns Horizon 170 SOLD
1997 4 Winns Sundowner 205 SOLD
2000 4 Winns Horizon 230 CURRENT
Tow Vehicle: 2007 Toyota Tundra Limited SOLD
1999 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 SOLD
2003 GMC Yukon XL 2500 6.0

"I really want something in the 26-27' range..."

"The wife is being stubborn about wanting an enclosed head and small microwave/sink..."

I had a 2002 245 Sundowner with the VP 5.7L 280HP with the u-shaped seating and two captains chairs. We loved it. Then I found a 2005 285 Sundowner with twin VP 5.0L 270HP with only 53 hours that the guy was practically giving away. The 285 fits both quotes above - 28', enclosed head, microwave, sink in the head and one in the cockpit. And a fridge, to boot. Both boats go over 50 MPH, but fuel is obviously just about twice as much in the new boat.

The big complaint about the 285 is that it collects water in way too many places. It's like they never designed a boat before. There are two spots on the deck. The drain isn't at the bottom of the anchor locker so my rode is always wet. And the engine compartment - first, the bilge drain at the back of the boat isn't at the lowest point, so even with the boat out of the water and the plug out, that won't completely drain. Then there are four other places in the engine compartment that collect a quart to a gallon each. Really surprised with that.

Besides that, we love the new boat, too. The four feet makes a noticeable difference in the chop and the extra space is great.

Now you just have to find one that they're giving away...

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2005 285 Sundowner w/ twin Volvo Penta 5.0 GXi 270HP SX

Joe I had a 2002 245. I can tell you that the early sundowners 1997 -2002 have alot more room then the 2003 and newer. Also the ealier models have alot more freeboard and way more helm room and bigger cabins. I added shorepower to ours with a on board battery charger it handle Lake Michigan very very well and very easy to trailer. I would stay away from the newer models. The gentleman that bought our 245 from us looked at a 2003 and said our boat had way more room. Just make sure you have the extended swim platform or add one. Ours had the 5.7 single prop with trim tabs and handle great. It did approx 45 -47 mph per gps. Good luck!