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 Post subject: Electrical schematics
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Is anyone aware of why FW do not make electrical schematics available for the 2007 on 256/ 278 Vista ? They are not available to the dealers either.

The wiring on my 2009 one is in some areas very strange indeed . It eats batteries with nothing switched on .Some things could never have worked, the way they are wired


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:31 am 
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I don't care for there wiring, but. CO2 detectors will drain your battiers too. Are you turning your fridg off from inside?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:02 am 
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Paul I. wrote:
I don't care for there wiring, but. CO2 detectors will drain your battiers too. Are you turning your fridg off from inside?


I've disconnected both CO monitors ( will reconnect them before using the boat, or change them to CO monitors with their own battery). Fridge is off, windlass breaker is off, systems breaker is off, forward bilge is disconnected ( was wired by the factory so it was permanently on !). Stereo is off (so it's not energising the separate amp; that's connected by the factory to the engine battery !).

Background current cycles between 50 and 100mA ( radio memory perhaps ?). This is where it gets really weird. If I switch the systems breaker on, it jumps to 5 A for a few seconds then > 10A ( off scale on my old analogue meter, my electronic clamp on one recently drowned !). If I switch the breaker off, it remains off scale for 5 seconds, drops to 5A for 5 seconds, goes off scale again for 5 seconds, drops to 5 A after 5 seconds then after 10 seconds it goes to the 50 -100 mA level. This was repeatable, it happened every time I switched the systems breaker on and off.

Nothing apart from the radio memory should bave been connected apart from:
Rear bilge pump ( connected via a 5 A breaker, so if there was a short it should have tripped)
Shower pump ( again, protected by a 5A breaker)
Charger output side ( it did blow a 15A fuse on the systems battery circuit, only once though and that was a few months back)
Charge splitter

Any ideas ? I now disconnect the battery when I leave the boat (longer term I will fit a dedicated on/ off switch for the systems battery, with only the bilge pumps permanently connected to the non switched battery terminal). I'll also connect the amp (via its 70A breaker) to the switched systems battery switch terminal.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:21 am 
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50-100 mA is pretty minor, and I'd expect that perhaps if you have a Mercathode type system, it's from that, especially if the boat is in the water.
Are you sure that the current you see is draining and not charging current? I imagine it is, but just a thought...
How about things like radar, chartplotter, etc? What all comes to life when the system breaker is energized?
Even sitting in my garage on the trailer, I keep AC power applied and the charger on. Cruisers just seem to be hard to totally isolate the battery unless you physically disconnect it... there's always potential for a quiescent drain from the many systems on board.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:07 am 
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I wasn't worried about the 50- 100mA, as you say it's pretty minor. When I tested it, the charger was off, the multimeter was in line between the +ve terminal and the end of the cable.The boat has the VP equivalent of the Mercathode system, but that's disconnected at the moment ( its 1A fuse removed) for another reason; it indicates it is taking maximum current of 200mA, the red and green LEDs both lit ("drive protected but please consult a VP dealer"), yet the Zinc anodes were new this season, boat is not connected to shore power, it has a galvanic isolator and it's in the same berth as my old boat was. Both LEDs never lit up together on that one, it's another mystery why they do on this one).

The chartplotter, VHF and Fishfinder are switched off and are isolated by the systems breaker and have their own fairly low amperage fuses. They are wired so they don't come on automatically when the breaker supplies power.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:07 am 
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As to the pumps, they should alway have power to them no matter what. For for trouble shooting, it makes since.

Me, I would disconnect power the main power cable from any and all fuse/breaker panels. This will help isolate the problem and narrow it down.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Perhaps take out all the fuses and add them one at a time to see what triggers the high current draw.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Some boats have more than 1 panel. My point was to narrow it down to the panel, than start pulling fuses.

My boat has 2 D.C. panels. the bigger the boat the more panels it could have.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:29 pm 
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kd4pbs wrote:
Perhaps take out all the fuses and add them one at a time to see what triggers the high current draw.


That sounds like a plan. There is also a "phantom" 9V voltage on some circuits ( like the cockpit lights and one of the wires to the forward bilge pump). I have yet to find where it's coming from !

The problem is that the boat is around 2 hours away, we go down to our holiday home there on the days when my wife is off work and she gets well pi**ed off with me if I spend all the time trying to sort out the electrics and other things on the boat ( batteries going flat is not the only issue we have experienced). Having so many £££ ( = even more $$$$) spent on something that just floats, gathers marine growth and potentially corrodes/ degrades is not regarded as positive and I can understand that point of view; less that 1 engine hour use this season.

Ironically, we sold the faultlessly reliable petrol powered 245 Sundowner for a diesel Vista as I was getting fed up with refuelingl using 20l jerrycans as the marina did not sell petrol; the ramp to the floating pontoons is very steep indeed at low water spring tides; so, this season of course the marina starts selling petrol !

I can foresee me removing all the wiring this winter when it's ashore.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:00 pm 
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I had a generator remote switch problem and could not find the wiring diagram in the manual. Other than that oversight, the wiring diagrams are pretty comprehensive and accurate. I contacted FW via their website and explained my dilemma. Within 3 days they sent me the addendum to my electrical diagram for the generator and I was able to resolve the problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:18 am 
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Captain_cgc wrote:
I had a generator remote switch problem and could not find the wiring diagram in the manual. Other than that oversight, the wiring diagrams are pretty comprehensive and accurate. I contacted FW via their website and explained my dilemma. Within 3 days they sent me the addendum to my electrical diagram for the generator and I was able to resolve the problem.


The FW dealer asked the factory for updated wiring schematics for my 2009 boat; none made available. The schematics in the owners manual ( my hard copy and on-line) are indeed comprehensive, but are for the 258/ 278 Vistas to 2006, they changed a number of things in 2007, so they are not entirely accurate for my boat. Owners manuals for later boats on-line do not appear to have wiring schematics !


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:21 am 
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Most of my problems were corrected by cutting out the OEM Molex connectors and wiring those connectors with waterproof Molex connectors (MX 150 series if I remember correctly). If I were to do it again, though - I'd probably just solder & heat shrink most of those connections, as many of them will never need to be disconnected ever again.
That really sucks that you guys are left without schematics :( -- they were VERY helpful for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:17 pm 
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I would diffently add a 2nd battery if you on't already have one.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Paul I. wrote:
I would diffently add a 2nd battery if you on't already have one.


I already have 2 batteries; systems and engine. I intend to fit a second systems battery, there's loads of room on the starboard side : no generator, no aircon. The new one, as well as the original will be (re) wired up via an old fashioned but reliable 1-2-both battery switch. The bilge pumps will still be covered by the breakers on the existing battery panel switch, but will be supplied from both systems batteries via 5A diodes, so one battery cannot flatten the other ( same factory system as on my 2004 Sundowner). The amplifier for the stereo ( with it's 70A breaker) will be supplied from that new battery switch, rather than from the engine battery switch.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:52 pm 
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I would go larger on the diode. But diodes only go one way and have a .6 to .7 volts drop across them.

Personally, I would/have added a another dual battery switch and a 2nd dual onboard charger.

Why a dual vs a single switch. = The cost is almost the same and you may add a 3rd house battery later.

The switch will tie the 2 batteries when needed and for charging off the engine. The 2nd charger will charge it when on shore power and open the switch when back in the slip for isolation. I used a remote battery switch and do it from the helm.

At the same time add another pump and connect it to one of the house batteries. Great ins.!!


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