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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:19 pm 
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Mental Floss

Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 3:46 pm
Posts: 919
Location: Lakeland, FL
One thing to be aware of with Chaparral. You will never speak to the manufacturer. They speak through your dealer only. If you think you will get questions answered from Chap, I'd try. They redesigned their website and included a phone number which wasn't there before. Call the factory and ask a question as an interested consumer and see what response you get.

They do make a nice boat

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:30 pm 
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The Real Dr.Evil
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 1004
Location: Greensburg PA
Honestly Bill,

The marina where I put in is a Chap dealer and they have every single one of Chap's cruisers in stock. I gotta tell you, I am not impressed! The fit and finish is not the same, I don't care for the use of space on all of them except for the Signature 330, that's the only one of the bunch I'd own.

SeaRay is another story... I would look at SeaRay but Chap probably wouldn't get another nod from me (I have the 07 cruiser brocheur sitting beside the end table and I've spent hours scrutinizing it) :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:29 pm 
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I have my second Searay now so I know a little about the brand. They don't make a bad boat, but their attitude seems to be if we don't have it you don't need.

Thanks for the Chappy info, I don't have a lot of experience with them. My parents had a mid 80's Four Winns cuddy, but that's the limit of my exposure.

So what's under the carpet in the cabin? On all the Searays, the cabin carpet is glued down, I'm guessing to plywood. There's removable sunbrella runners but the carpet ain't coming out.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:27 am 
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The Real Dr.Evil
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:35 am
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Location: Greensburg PA
jrcinnh wrote:
So what's under the carpet in the cabin? On all the Searays, the cabin carpet is glued down, I'm guessing to plywood. There's removable sunbrella runners but the carpet ain't coming out.


Well let's look at it like this...

I have the smallest and cheapest of the Vista Cruisers. The entire cabin is a fully gelcoated liner, all carpet is lay in (no snaps, it has a rubber backer) and the entire hull is gelcoated inside. All of the deck to hull fasteners secure to wood backers which are formed and bonded around the perimeter of the hull (no screws into fiberglass here). All drainage is appropriately designed to channel water into channels and overboard (engine hatch). I am not braging because I own one, but if you read David Pascoe's criteria for a proper built boat, the Four Winns cruisers meet most of his stringent criteria.

Here are a few bilge photos to kick around, look at how the others are built. Look for things like solid stainless steel thru hulls above the water line, solid bronze thru hulls under the water, with true 8awg bonding wires running to an active galvanic isolator. Look for fully gelled bilges, look for proper bedding of any component that pierces stringers and hull with 3M 5200, look for backer plates for load bearing items.

I think FW did it right, even on thier cheapest boat!

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:29 pm 
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I'm heading to Boston for the show on Saturday. They will have 358 there, I'm dying to see one. Anything special I should look at?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:32 pm
Posts: 159
Location: Florida
Compare the differences between the 338 and the 358. They appear minor but can make a big difference to you. Closet space, storage, room in the actual showering area, usability of storage areas, etc. They are different boats done by different designers and not just a smaller or extended versions of each other.

The most important thing. Enjoy the experience !!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:43 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
Nice pix Brett, I agree on all point. Few boat makers go the extra mile and provide a gelcoat finish in the engine compartment. Many only have a thin coat over roving (the fiberglass weaving). It's very nice that FW provides a fully-finished smooth gelcoat surface here.

About the only thing i'd complain about would be the type of electrical connectors. But then these are the same connectors a lot of boat manufacturers use. The engineer in me would be happier to see more moisture resistant connectors for things like the bilge pumps and autopilot wiring. But they, this is really nitpicking.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:48 pm 
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The Real Dr.Evil
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:35 am
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Location: Greensburg PA
wkearney99 wrote:
Nice pix Brett, I agree on all point. Few boat makers go the extra mile and provide a gelcoat finish in the engine compartment. Many only have a thin coat over roving (the fiberglass weaving). It's very nice that FW provides a fully-finished smooth gelcoat surface here.

About the only thing i'd complain about would be the type of electrical connectors. But then these are the same connectors a lot of boat manufacturers use. The engineer in me would be happier to see more moisture resistant connectors for things like the bilge pumps and autopilot wiring. But they, this is really nitpicking.



Bill,

I agree that they (Four Winns and others) use standard off the shelf MOLEX(tm) connectors which are not "really" for wet use.. But again FW goes the extra distance, all my Molex's that would be exposed to moisture (like the one's on the shower sump bilge area) are sprayed with cosmoline. I was impressed to see that!

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Brett DiMichele


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:06 am 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
Brett248Vista wrote:
...all my Molex's that would be exposed to moisture (like the one's on the shower sump bilge area) are sprayed with cosmoline.


Really. Mine weren't. I wonder, where does one buy conformal coatings and stuff like cosmoline?

Rust in the shower sump connector. There's corrosion in the autopilot steering pump connector (stretched too tight as well). Engine compartment bilge connectors likewise showing some signs of problems. I'm giving consideration toward replacing the connectors entirely with someone that has an actual waterproof seal. At least for the ones that have enough slack to make it practical.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:01 pm 
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The Real Dr.Evil
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:35 am
Posts: 1004
Location: Greensburg PA
Bill,

That is a good question. I've never actually bought any spray conformal coatings. I'm sure if you google "spray on conformal coatings" or "spray on cosmoline" you may find some useful linkage.

Not sure why there would be variance from boat to boat. All of my connectors are sprayed with a tacky, dull brown colored coating. The "extra" leads in the wiring harness also has the exposed molex's sprayed as well. Not sure who makes the pigtails that the auto industry uses (maybe AMP) but those would be the ideal connectors, the one's with the multi ribbed, color coded bands on them.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:52 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
Brett248Vista wrote:
Bill,
Not sure why there would be variance from boat to boat.


As my Dad used to say, never buy a car made on a Monday morning, or a Friday afternoon. Either someone hung over and dreading being back at work, or ready to get the heck out of there for the weekend.

I do plan on replacing the connectors with ones that are watertight. So that will definitely be on my winter project list.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new cruiser
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:13 am
Posts: 313
The show was great. There was a FW 338 and a 358 side by side and within 100 feet of a 350 Chapparal. We spent a lot of time on the boats and since they were not from our local dealer, I'm not sure how happy the sales people where. We quickly forgot about the 330 and 340 Searays, way too out of date. We were locked in a three way tie for quite a while. We finally dropped the 338 because of the generator/gray water issue. We also worried that it wasn't a big enough step.

So it's was down to the FW and the Chap. We're leaning heavily towards the FW. I've got the local dealer working on it. Our boating season is almost over, should I wait until the deep winter boat shows to get the best price? If I order it now or then I'm not going to put it in the water until spring.

More 358 questions, what's with that window behind the galley? Can you actually reach in there and open it? If I drop something in that space does it disappear forever behind the galley?

Does anyone find the TV a little too small? Anyone upgrade? where did you put it?

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 Post subject: Re: Need a new cruiser
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:23 am 
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Tadpole

Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:51 am
Posts: 4
Hi, guys - I'm brand new to the forum and have read your comments on the 358 with lots of interest.

I'm currently in the process of deciding between the V358 and the SR 340DA. Both seem to be solid boats and for the most part either seems to be a fairly good option. I like the FW (hull design and cockpit) and my wife the SR (she especially likes the larger Galley countertop area and integrated coffee/microwave). :?

My Question/Concern really has to do with one thing - the V358 (07 Brand New) I'm looking at is equipped with the Crusader 6.0's and is priced pretty competitively. The generate roughly 375HP and cruise at around 4,000RPM vs. the Mercruiser 8.1's on the SR which create roughly the same HP - 370, but cruise at a substantially lower 3400RPM.

Does anyone have any idea of what the long term impact the higher RPM's might have on the Crusader engine reliability?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Need a new cruiser
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:58 pm 
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Sierra

Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:00 pm
Posts: 741
Location: East Coast
Marvin Gardens wrote:
I'm currently in the process of deciding between the V358 and the SR 340DA. Both seem to be solid boats and for the most part either seems to be a fairly good option. I like the FW (hull design and cockpit) and my wife the SR (she especially likes the larger Galley countertop area and integrated coffee/microwave). :?

My Question/Concern really has to do with one thing - the V358 (07 Brand New) I'm looking at is equipped with the Crusader 6.0's and is priced pretty competitively. The generate roughly 375HP and cruise at around 4,000RPM vs. the Mercruiser 8.1's on the SR which create roughly the same HP - 370, but cruise at a substantially lower 3400RPM.

Does anyone have any idea of what the long term impact the higher RPM's might have on the Crusader engine reliability?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Welcome Marvin (from another relative newcome). The Sea Ray vs FW comparison seems to be a popular one right now. Even as a die-hard SR enthusiast, I am now all but certain that I will be ordering a FW 358 in the coming weeks, a lot of my decision soming down to personal preference on certain features/layout and being generally impressed with what FW has done with this vessel. On the engine issue, I can't help you with your specific question, but here are specs that I received from a dealer in helping with my choice of engines:

Crusdaer 375hp IB. running speeds/rpm's: 2500rpm---16mph---3000rpm---23mph---3500---29mph
Volvo 320hp IB. 2500rpm---16mph..3000rpm---23mph---3500---28mph

Hope that helps a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Need a new cruiser
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:53 pm 
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wkearney99

Joined: Fri May 19, 2006 3:50 pm
Posts: 2444
Location: Boat in Annapolis, live in Bethesda, MD
jrcinnh wrote:
More 358 questions, what's with that window behind the galley? Can you actually reach in there and open it? If I drop something in that space does it disappear forever behind the galley?

Does anyone find the TV a little too small? Anyone upgrade? where did you put it?


I'm 6'4" and can reach the window to open it. Generally I don't. Yes, you can drop stuff behind there. You can retrieve it from behind the fridge. Four screws and the whole space is accessible.

There is an edge to the shelf that's supposed to keep stuff from falling down there. Mine came loose. The gap is there to allow air to flow up from the fridge. There are some holes in the cabinetry below the front of the fridge, this allows cool air into the cavity. The warm air then escapes out the gap by the window. This isn't an unusual setup. So you can't block that gap (or at least not without harming the longevity of your fridge...) I've simply learned not to put anything small on that shelf. I keep some rolled up placemats and a square fold-over napkin holder case.

A related tip, get some rubbery shelf liner mats. I picked up some rolls of it from Target. It's a clear/frosted sort of ribbed vinyl. Put that on the various shelves and drawer bottoms. It'll keep stuff from sliding around and leaving scrapes. I use that on the galley window shelf too.

Tangentally, do NOT drop something down behind the edge of the forward cabin shelves. It's a real hassle getting under that bed! You either pull up the forward bed panel (four screws) or the water tank. I'm going to be spending some time with a hot glue gun or something to better secure the way the vinyl is supposed to close the gap. It's sort of the same hassle at the edges of the cabin behind the sofa. The stuff usually drops down into the area below the sofa cushion (which opens).

I have the front stateroom option in our 348. Thus we can't see the TV from the forward berth. At some point I do want to add another TV up in the forward cabin. The position of the TV above the microwave is less than ideal. The higher position really makes it uncomfortable to watch TV for very long. A 2 hour movie really pushes it. But this is unfortunately not easy to solve and most boats in this class have this problem. There just aren't good places to put a TV in an express boat. If you put it low enough there's the risk of someone lurching in the cabin and putting a shoulder or hip into the glass, breaking it. That and putting it up on the rear cabin wall (under the helm) is still often "too high" or can't be seen without craning your neck sideways from the sofa.

I'd *really* like to have a better place and size TV but there's just no simple solution. But it doesn't bother me enough to keep from considering or recommending the boat. If I put a TV in the forward cabin I'm going to try setting it up on some sort of detachable bracket. Then I'd put the same bracket mount up in the cockpit on the port side of the radar arch.

Like I said, lots of other boats in the class make the very same mistake/compromise. Our solution for now? Do stuff other than watch TV! (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...)

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista


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