www.iFourWinns.com

Cougar,

No, I despise a forward berth (fixed) with a sleeping aft cabin. The 318 and the 310 both have sit down lounges in the aft cabin area (the Chap 310 looks like it has a bit more head room). As long as I can comfortably seat 5-7 people then I am happy and can live with the bed.

288's not on the list! The 290 is fantastic but the dealer doesn't have any (other than an 04 which I am not interested in) and like he said, he can get me into the 310 cheaper than the 290 since they want to move the left over 08's! The next boat is getting slipped, I just need to swallow my pride and get used to it.. So with that in mind, sure as long as I can afford it... Why not go big! I will still get a trailer for the boat and bring it home for winter (since I already have the concrete pad for it, and some day the rest of the garage).

My dad was off today and went down to see this new 310 and he was impressed. We were both on the 318, 338, 358 etc.. (all are typical gorgeous FW boats!).

What is the deal with the couch in the 318 and the steps? do they hit one another?

Here is a high resolution Virtual Tour of the 310's cabin.

http://www.chaparralboats.com/2009/movs/sig310.html

_________________
Brett DiMichele

No - the steps on the 318 don't hit at all. They are laddered just like the 310. Headroom in the virtual tour actually looks about the same.

So - what's the options list on the 310 you are thinking?

I like the interior -- the round looking couch looks pretty slick. I presume that tv pulls out so you can see it from the couch/bed/mid cabin?

The price is right on target if they give you a decent trade.

You may run into issues trailering that boat though -- it's awfully wide (10.5').

Go see the boat and take pictures! We'll tell you how we really feel.

Look hard at the 318. I don't know how that 310 is equipped -- but you can either find or special order a new 09 318 for that kind of dough.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Still tough to find a lot better than 20 - 25% off a new custom built 09, leftover 08's sitting on a dealers lot is the way to go...regarding rates, while different areas of the country may vary, the best I've seen out there for a fixed rate is 6.99% for loans over $100k, you go under $100k and the rates move up a 1/2 point. There are 3 and 5 year adjustables that go to the mid 5% range but I'd be a little worried about inflation issues a few years down the road driving the prime rate up (which most of these loans are indexed too) and your hit with big increases...pretty easy to do a google search on Boat Loans and get daily rates.

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Joe B.
Ruff'N It 4
2011 Regal 42 SC

Previous
2008 FW V358
2006 FW V318
2004 FW V288

US Bank has my boat loan... I'm at 6.5 or 6.75 - I can't remember.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Oh -- Brett...

Your numbers (30% plus incentives) knock off what - just over 35% from MSRP. That is a stunning deal for a 2008 Cruiser. That's over 80 thousand off sticker. I know there's mark up - but there is a point.

Most dealers run at that 30-35% margin I think... to discount much more than that requires them to get incentives from the manufacturer...

If you got that 310... and they sweetened the pot with things like discounted moorage, a full tank of gas, a free 25 hour service, a list of part& accessories thrown in -- you would be stealing that boat.

Law950 hates me for it... but like I tell him... when a deal presents itself like that - you gotta jump on it. I keep telling him to go buy a boat. I just don't think the right deal has presented itself to him yet.

If you're in a position to be able to do it... then do it man.

There is a chap owners forum.... I wonder if they are as cool as we are?

_________________

2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

The list of options:

Raymarine E80 Chartplotter
Mercury 350 Magnum Bravo III with DTS
Stainless Steel Windsheild
Cockpit Refrigerator
Cockpit Cover
Camper Canvas
Trim Tab Indicator
Upgraded stereo (320 Watt) w/sub
Sirius Sat
TV Antenna
Folding Arch
Overboard Discharge W/Mascerator
Dockside Water/ CATV
5Kw Kohler Genset
Windlass w/200' Rode
Stainless Delta Anchor
Teak/Holly Cabin Sole
Stainless transom BBQ Grill
Wideband Black Gelcoat
6 Disk CD Changer
Main Cabin TV/DVD
Aft Cabin Table
12K BTU Heat/Air Conditioning
Sliding Door with Screen
Gas Vapor Detector
Automatic Fire Suppresion
Hinged Radar Arch
Deck Sunpads

I am not sure if the TV pulls out or not, I will have to check that when I go look at the boat. The numbers they came off with was 150K before trade in, I am not sure if they factored in the 12,400.00 Boat Show Incentive. If that is with that factored in, I will probably pass.

Damn near 7% interest, ugg... I guess I don't feel the bank deserves to make that much money on a loan, thank god I wasn't a consumer during the Reagan administration! I will be curious to see what kind of rates they come up with, I will also check with the bank I dealt with on my 248 since they are always trying to give me money.

This may wind up being one big tire kicking adventure, I haven't had a chance yet to really sit down and crunch my own numbers to see where this is going to put me. I may just be chasing rainbows right now. They did offer me a hell of a deal on slippage fees, either way if I don't upgrade I will slip my 248 this season. I used my boat TWICE last year... Granted it was a crappy summer, but still, that's a travesty!

10'6 is a bit much to tow, but I have a straight shot, all interstate and I can get the permit relatively cheap and it would be a once a year thing. I can't see paying them money to store the boat outside when I can bring it home and have it safe and sound here, and even go out and fiddle with it during winter.

_________________
Brett DiMichele

kick the tires & light the fires boys!

Keep us posted Brett... seems like it could be a helluva deal. Merc 350's with DTS is a big winner (i LOVE the digital shifting on my EVCs). E80 chartplotter is a great upgrade. Teak & Holly flooring. Looks fantastic - but you'll end up putting rugs down. ha ha.

Having both the cockpit cover and camper canvas is fantastic...

Screen door, wideband black, tvs, upgraded stereos -- man, if I could grunt like Tim the Tool Man Taylor!

Sounds super sweet.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Go there and do a search for Four Winns. They certainly don't seem to hold the brand in very high regard.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Nobody said they were smart... I just wondered if they were cool.

I checked them out. Boring. We have way more fun projects on this board.

The highlight of their day were threads:

1) What sort of cool water toy should I get to hurt myself on this summer?
2) Oh crap, my boat fell off the stands (which really sucks).

On the other hand... the big thread today is about Brett possibly leaving the FW family for a Chaparral.

Sheesh.

Where's their threads on LEDs, Pimped out stereos, and stories about how people have had mishaps with boats?

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Funny thing is, I was really impressed with their 350 based on how well it showed on their website. It was high on my list when I was shopping and I looked at everything in the class. Then I got on board one and crossed it right off the list. I'm sure it's a terrific boat - it certainly is well-liked among its owners from what I can tell. I just found it to have a surprisingly cheap feel with fit and finish. Just one person's reaction, but I can't deny how it made me feel.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

No bashing intended, but I agree with what you say. I too was not impressed with the quality control at Chap. And particularly with new ones.

A couple of known issues to be careful of with their cruisers.
* Cockpit covers do not fit properly, and they let water in.
* The canvas leaks because it attaches inside the radar arch.
Most issues have been QC related. Poor attention to detail at the factory.
Things like thru hull fitting' s not sealed properly, anchor locker leaks, deck stantion leaks,
cosmectic issues with poor seams in the vinyl.
Any new boat from a manufacturer is bound to have some kinks, and as long as your dealer
will go to bat for you, and get things fixed in a timely manner , under warranty, then build quality issues may not be a big concern for you.

Finally, if you are serious about a new Chap Sig, I would highly recommend a full survey of the boat, that way, many of these known quality issues can be identified and get fixed before you put her in the water.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I'm not about to bash a Chap - because I do think they are nice boats...

Historically - you better hope your dealer is a 10 star rating because Chap doesn't have any customer service that you could call and handle issues directly with the company. Everything had to be done through their dealer network.

I should note - when I bought my Chap - a 10 star dealer carried the line (Seattle Boat Co who also has Cobalt). Seattle Watersports (definitely NOT a 10 star dealer) took the line over and their track record is flat at best.

The big deal breaker for us was the bang-for-your-buck wasn't there like it was for Four Winns for us.

I did have some fit'n'finish issues on my Chap that I didn't have with my Four Winns. But then - we're talking about a 20 foot bowrider in 1999 versus a 240 in 2008.

Again - personal preference.

If Brett LOVES the boat - that's what matters.

Track down a fresh, loaded 318 in your area for comparison before you pull the trigger though.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

This was always a given with buying a pre-owned boat, particularly a cruiser given the complexity and number of systems. But more and more I have become a firm believer that this is a great move with a new boat as well. I certainly developed a comprehensive punch-list of mostly minor items when I took delivery of each of my last two, new boats. But to have a trained eye go through a boat much more comprehensively can only work to the buyer's advantage. Even $500 is a drop in the bucket against the grand scheme of a purchase like this and for me, the more issues you can identify early on, the easier it will be to enjoy an uninterrupted boating season.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I was reading your equipment list. Those crazy Chap builders. Don't they know you can't see through a windshield made out of stainless steel?!! They need to be made out of something see-through, like "transparent aluminum!" Beam me up Scottie!

All kidding aside, I did see a Signature in Chicago last summer and they do look like a nice boat.

I have been shopping around for a preowned 378. We are looking to upgrade to a 36-38 cruiser from our 2005 Chaparral 290. If we didn't need a bigger boat, we definitely would have stayed with our Chaparral much longer. I can easily say that it is a great boat.