www.iFourWinns.com

Welcome Certezuk! Where do you do your boating?

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Thanks. We boat in Lake Norman, Charlotte, NC. We had a boat show two weekends ago in Charlotte and we were really looking forward to seeing the Vista 378 over there. They did not have any Four Winns Vistas at all. Since there were also some other boats that we didn't get to see in this size range, me and my wife flew to Miami for the weekend. What a great show!!! We just returned back and we really like the 378. We pretty much narrowed our choices down to three boats: Vista 378, Cruisers 360 and Doral Boca Grande. Since Cruisers 360 is a new model for the last two years, we're not going to be able to find one in our price range. Now, it's time to search for a nice clean boat for the right price. Half the fun of boating is shopping for one...

The difficult thing will be finding a boat clean enough to impress the admiral. We kept our boat in showroom state and she will probably be disappointed if the ones we find are not very clean. I know that a little elbow grease goes a long way, but she is a bit of a clean freak. Even though we get a lot of compliments on our boat, I think people kinda make fun of us behind our backs...

I really hope to find an affordable 378 and become a part of this forum.

So far it's not looking good. I do not want to over extend my spending and I am not sure I can pull this off without doing some debt restructuring. Payoff on my 248 is 25K and I have a Payoff on my car of 20. I think what I may do is sell my 248 outright, pay off those two existing loans which then leaves me with just my mortgage (and of course the normal bills) that brings my spending in line.

Even factoring in a low trade in number for my 248 the highest the payments would be is around 800 a month. I would like to bring that down into the low 700 range.

The dealer is still crunching numbers they are going to call me back tomorrow to let me know what they can do on a trade in. I don't expect they will give me what I feel my 248 is worth. The dealer where I bought my 248 has the same exact boat as mine (year, options and hours) and are asking 57K and it's a brokered boat so they probably aren't too flexible on the price. My boat has every option plus the addition of the LewMar V700 Windlass and over 2 grand worth of synthetic teak work that NO other 248 has. I also upgraded the trailer to a 11,500lb electric winch and I've done other small projects. The boat has 58 hours on it.... I would probably be better off selling it rather than trading it in.

I will keep you guys posted!

Welcome aboard certezuk

How long have you had your 290? What are you asking for it?

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Brett DiMichele

Hey Brett - good for you to not get so emotionally involved that you can't walk away. That can be really tough to do when we want something so badly (we are boaters, after all) and it definitely puts you in a relative position of power with the seller. With this kind of responsible approach, the right situation is bound to materialize sooner or later. We will continue to put the positive vibes out there for you!

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Well, don't worry - you are among friends here who share the same affliction. The support group meets nightly

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Dealer's can *crunch* numbers all they want...

Brett - you are approaching this in a very balanced perspective.

You already know where your limits are in terms of how much you end up financing at the end of the day. Where/how they put the numbers to make it happen is up to the dealer.

If the dealer gives you less of a trade in, just tell them to work with Chaparral for more discounts to bring the price of the boat down.

If it's meant to be - and you are being realistic about your situation/pricing/etc -- then there's probably a good chance it could happen.

Although... I'm probably a poor example. The admiral and I went way over what we 'wanted' to spend. But then - we had been looking at 278's and thinking about 288's as a stretch. Fortunately, the guys @ Winnisquam did what needed to be done to make it happen and we pulled off the 318.

There's more flexibility in pricing with the dealer and factory than what people think. There are already great incentives - but the dealer can call the factory and say "if you can give me 5k more, I can make this deal happen". Not a common scenario, but can happen - especially on the bigger boats.

Make sure the marina sees your 248 and how it's optioned out. Make sure they have your contact info and tell them "I'm a buyer in today's market - if you guys can't make it work, then I hope you don't mind if I look to see if I can find someone who will?"

Start calling Chap dealers to see who has leftover 290's. You may even be able to get a dealer to do an online inventory search. (Four Winns dealers can look up boats across the country to see who has what)

The more info you have the better. And who knows -- maybe you'll find a 290!

As for the truck - you should just get a diesel. It sounds like you're gonna need it regardless. ha ha.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

I agree with the other guys. The last thing I would want to do is worry about high boat payments. Good news for me is that I just got a call from one person selling his 2005 Vista 378 and another call from a 2005 Doral Boca Grande owner. I'll take a look at them this weekend and decide if any of them are up to the admiral's standards.

Brett, if I do decide to get one of these boats, I'll want to open up space in my slip for the new one coming in so I'll put a pretty aggressive price on the 290. I'm thinking something like $84,000 will sell it pretty quickly. It has 115 freshwater hours on the twin 5.0 270 hp Volvo's. I think the genset has 7 hours but I need to check to make sure. It was kept on a slip by an old couple for 2 years and I bought it from them last May and got it bottom painted. We could tell they never used the inside of the boat as we had to unwrap most of the cushions, microwave, fridge, etc... We probably stayed in it overnight for 6 times and cleaned it 66 times last season. Let me know if you are interested at all.

I would hate to turn this forum into an advertising page so I'll stop talking about the Chaparral. I am really excited to check out the 378 though. If the price does work out, it is definitely my #1 choice. We love the setup inside and out. Everybody I talked to at the boat show said that the ride so steady that it feels like a 45' boat.

Cougar,

Yep I will need a 2500 Diesel, I am going to pick up an older truck since I don't want another payment, and send my 04 packin...

The dealer called back today and the deal is..... (drum roll) 100K for the 310 after my trade in. I still owe 25 on the 248 so if I consolidate, I need to borrow 120K and I just came up with 928 a month at 6.99 APR, the dealer said 1100.. I think thier numbers are off!

This deal may just happen yet! They are aggressive on the pricing for sure!

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Brett DiMichele

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

??? So what's their bottom line on the 310 before your trade? My dealer has a loaded '08 310 (don't know the specifics) for $139.9 before any negotiation. Am I missing something?

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Ok, so maybe my math is off... or we're more complicated than I am capable of thinking at.

(Taking the trucks totally out of the equation for now - because those values are separate from purchasing the boat).

You were thinking of a price around 145k plus tax/license for the boat. That's a tremendous value for a boat that is $225k sticker.

They ran the numbers and basically came back with your Vista + 100k + tax/license and the boat is yours?

Considering you still owe 25k on the Vista.. Stack that on the 100k... and you are looking at $125k plus whatever taxes/licensing you end up owning?

To me? At your preferred price of 145k, that means they are looking at 45k for a trade in. Given that, you basically are around 10k from what you probably would have sold the 248 for privately?

Maybe you split the difference and try to get another 5k out of them... and throw in moorage for the year, and your 20 hour service for free and they've got a deal!

BTW, when do we get pictures of the boat to tell you if it's a good or bad idea?

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Sounds like a very good price for the Chap and a very fair price for your trade in the economy. That looks like a 20 year note for the payment you came up with. Hope it works out for you. Me...I was raised with a different philosophy. Family was in the car business for over 80 years. Grandfather's line to me growing up was "Other than your home, if you can't pay it off in three years you can't afford it." I have lived by that and has helped me quite a bit in decisions with cars, boats, hunting land, etc. Not that I liked the decisions I had to make some of the times though . But like I said...that is what makes me comfortable. Good luck.

There is still some wheeling and dealing to do. I found out the boat has two less options than I listed and one of them is a big option. The boat does not have the S.S. Windsheild, not a big option and they will install it for me. The boat does NOT have the Raymarine E80, and that is a $6975 option. it does have every other option listed above.

I feel they are going to have to come down on the price of the boat before showing any trade. I know what they are trying to do, shift the numbers and that doesn't work for me. if I have to sell the 248 outright I will, and it that means it takes me a few months, so be it.

Also that 1100 a month figure doesn't add up at all...

I am at work and can't really spend much time here. Will follow up when I get home.

Dogg,

Kind of hard to pay off a 30+ foot cruiser in 3 years unless you are netting 7-10K a month and that's just not reasonable. Trust me I am very particular about what I do in life, my 809 FICO should be some indication. I've paid off mortgages, owned five Corvette's and many other cars and I've done it all on less than what most here probably make, and I have nearly 10K sitting in the bank right now.

We each make our own choices. And I appreciate you sharing how you chose to live.

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Brett DiMichele

Ok guys I am home and had some time to sit down and do the numbers...

If I go off 2009 pricing with the exact options the boat has, 30% off and 12,400 incentives that brings the price down to 138K which dare I say is right in line with what Sierra posted. So it sounds to me like this dealer is not speaking my language.

Assuming 138K and 50K trade in (which I think is low) and my 25K rolled into the new loan, that's 113,444.40 I would have to finance @ 6.99 for 20 years, that comes out to $878.85 a month. And the dealership came back with $1100+ a month? What the hell are they smoking?

FYI the 138K price is 09 pricing and the options list was adjusted to remove GPS and the stainless windshield header, neither of which it has.

I think I just need to sell my boat outright for what I want, then do a straight cash deal, I have the feeling they are just going to keep playing a numbers game thinking they are going to out calculate me and it's not going to happen.

Tell me, am I right here? Or am I expecting too much?

Sierra,

Does your local Chap dealer have the 310 listed on a web site where I could compare options? The prices are so close I have to assume it has all the big options. If it has all the big options PLUS Raymarine E80, then that's an even BETTER deal (since the GPS is a 7K option, 12K with radar).

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Brett DiMichele

Hey Brett --

My advice to to keep your "dealing" limited to 2 numbers. These are the numbers that really matter.

1) How much you are paying for the 310
2) Trade in value.

Don't worry about payment stuff -- that will work itself out. You know how to find a payment based on a % rate. Once you guys reach mutual agreement on sale price/trade - then you check their rates with their banks. If you don't like them - you go get your own financing. With your FICO where it is - you should be just fine.

If you manage "all the other stuff" in your mind - you'll know your position. They don't need to know the details of who/what/why/how.

Makes things alot easier.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA