www.iFourWinns.com

Thanks Lou, that make so much sense. My boat lives in the water all year, and we live in a very humid costal area that during summer month gets lots of rainfall. I make sure the boat is water tight when I leave it each (all cover on and clipped) but with a fair bt of wind and rain freshwater always gets in and always sits in the hull.

So there is always moisture there and a pretty warm temperature. When you look foward toward the bulk head under the Genset floor you can clearly see the matt and glass does cover all the timber (not even close). The photo is in the photobucket link http://s999.photobucket.com/albums/af11 ... g&newest=1

Thanks again for you time.
Cheers
Brett

Hello

Just a quick question has any member ever gone down the legal trail on this sort of thing.

I had a couple of interesting chats with Lawyers today that seem to think if the boat was made wrong in the start (my view) I would have a very strong case to have Four Winns repair it whether or not I met the warranty conditions.

I am going to investigate further, will keep you upto date.

Cheers
Brett

I think I would head to the consumer style grops first. The law thing will cost a fortune....surely there is a group that protects consumer rights on manufacture eror !!!!

This photo speaks volumes, I'm 99.999% sure that is not the factory glass job. There appears to be only 8" of glass up from the bottom of the bilge. There is zero exposed wood in my bilge. There are a lot of 328 owner's here, I'd be shocked to hear their bilges have the same glass work.

_________________
-Tom
2003 298 Vista

Agreed that just does not look right and is not what new FWs looked like when I climbed around them at boat shows. Having repaired damage like this {nastiest job you will EVER do....I'd rather swap 10 engines than EVER do that again} the only good thing about going thru it is that YOU can make sure it's done right and you can wind up with a boat that you will get many more years out of....

BTW my stringers (hidden by the deck until I had to replace it) looked just like that pic of the bulkhead...just glassed about 1/2 the way up...and if you look at the pic of the transom opening....blow it up 100% look at the part that isn't rotted...you can see the grain of the plywood under the gelcoat which suggests to me that they didn't even put a couple of coats of resin on the grain of that plywood, which is the most vulnerable part of a transom as far as rot goes. Like I said if you can get a good surveyor to comment on the lack of quality construction techniques...you might get them to cover some of the cost....

Unprotected plywood rots REALLY fast in a damp enviroment...I wonder if this level boat from FW still has wood in the transom or have they gone to composite....I have a couple of dinghys on the beach I use to paddle out to my boat...I put a mount on the back to attach folding wheels to make moving them around the beach easier...each one has a piece of 3/4 in plywood to mount the wheels to the transom...as an experiment I used one plain unprotected piece of ply and one pressure treated one...the plain one is about 4 seasons old....a little warped but not rotted yet...this gets wet with salt water and rain water but can dry out in the sun...I want to see if the PT one holds up any better....I know that Grady White started using PT treated wood in their construction some time back...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Thanks again Lou.

I have started to organise getting a marine surveyor to have a look but I might get the gensetout and cut some of the floor out first to give them a better look.

I am going end up with the most expensive 328 ever built by the sounds of things.

Cheers
Brett.

You know Brett one way you can think of this is not so much the cost of the repairs...but the cost of getting another comparable boat if you were to replace this one....I knew that my boat at the time was not worth much and the problem was I could not in clear conscious sell it to someone else who might try to use it and it was not really seaworthy in the state it had gotten to. And to find a decent 20' bowrider around here would have cost 12-15K used....so for what I spend yes it's still an old boat...I won't get that money back...but I can use it for as long as I want...it's safe and solid and it was still cheaper than junking this one out for parts and buying another (much newer in better condition) one.

If you keep it long enough it's no different than having to re-power because of a premature engine failure which is certainly common on used boats...everyone who boats knows someone who had to do that...

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Yes it has to be fixed, at the moment it's sitting in dry doc costing A$65 per day while I'm trying to work out just how far I need to rip out.

It still really gets to me that it only 5 years old and the reason I bought it in 2006 was because I wanted a fairly new boat I could own fo ten years or so and not have to do much more than annual maintainence.

I am still going to give to FW to try and get a decent contribution toward these repair, storage and refit costs....my lawyer thinks I have a very good chance but they always say that !!

The worst part is sitting here looking at the weather - middle of winter 5 kn breeze ocean glassed out 80 degrees outside and water temp of 75 - should be out using the bloody thing !!!

Thanks again Lou for your comments, very helpful..

Cheers
Brett.

Just a quick update, have been with the mechanic today on the boat.

Pulled out aft cabin and started checking stringers on the bow side of engine bulk head, they are also completely rotted one tap with the hammer goes straight through, you can push a screw driver through.

Next stop cut out cabin floor.....I think the boat may be a write off.

For those that haven't seen the photo's yet please take a look.

http://s999.photobucket.com/albums/af11 ... sta%20328/

this picture in particular, I think where the problem began.

http://s999.photobucket.com/albums/af11 ... mwall2.jpg

Brett.

Need advice, what do I do.....I think the boat is actually a write-off.

Do you sell motor's, genset etc.... or spend the cash to try and fix it ?

It's 5 years old ...... I am looking at losing A$200,000....

I look at the one picture and agree with what has been said already, I have an 03 268 and have not seen anything even close to the shotty glass work on my boat. Could it be the previous owner ripped the transom off and had it repaired (I used that term loosely) and the unloaded it as fast as he could?? A non invasive survey would have moisture readings taken and a hammer test for delamination, which it would have probably passed.

It seems to me that if there was that sort of damage it should have been disclosed at the time of sale. If there was some type of undisclosed damage, I think you best bet is to go back to the guy you bought it from.

Lastly, I would get a good fiberglass repair guy in and get an estimate to repair the damage before you make the decision to write it off, even if it cost 25 -30k to repair, that is a hell of alot better than 200k.

_________________
Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

Thanks Jeff

Yes getting a quote is proving quite difficult because they don't know where it ends !!!

but that is definately the first course of action.

I am still in shock I think.

I have no doubt you are in shock among other things, as I would be too.

Do you have any indication yet that this was undisclosed damage that was repaired as cheap as possibly just to unload it?

_________________
Jeff

'14 Cruisers 380 Express "Simon Sez"
Merc 8.2 Mag MPI 380
DTS B3X, (x2) Axius Premier


(SOLD)
'08 V318
Merc 350 Mag MPI 300
DTS Seacore, B3 (x2)

Hi Jeff

From all my enquiry the boat has suffered any damage in the past it was just built wrong.

The survey I had done in 2006 would not of picked it up because I think the areas affected would have been completely cover at that point.

My only option after yesterdays news is to launch a legal attack on Four Winns, money...money ...money


Brett

Brett I would not despair until I got a good 'glass shop to take a look at it...at least you have the engines out and can get access to most of it..I have no idea what labor rates for fiberglass runs where you are but I know typically around here transom replacements can run from 3000-5000 depending on the details of the construction....the stringer work...mostly depends on how far it goes as you say and what needs to removed to get at the damage. What is the value of the boat (good condition) presently? Even if it costs as much as 15K I'd still say you are better off not scrapping the boat....my little bowrider renovation ran about 4K or so and most would have said "are you nuts the boat is only woth 6K" plus it has OMC power (no problem actually but bad rep/resale) well anything I would have replaced this with would have cost 15-20K so I am still between 11-16K ahead the way I see it...and the boat was rebuilt the way I wanted it....not built to get it out of the factory as fast as possible...and I can feel the difference out on the water....Keep the faith....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II