www.iFourWinns.com

The government realizes this and that is why they treat a boat like a second home and you are allowed to write-off the loan interest paid on your income taxes. Depending on what tax bracket you are in, you will probably be paying around $2,400 less in income taxes each year due to your bigger boat payment. Like I tell my clients, you can either pay the banker or the IRS, take a pick. At least with the banker you are getting something for your money.

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Current Boat: 2000 Four Winns 298 Vista
Previous Boat: 2000 Carver 406MY

OK - I win the award for not paying close enough attention. Somewhere along the way I got confused and thought you were looking at a Four Winns 310 in addition to the Chap 290 so that's what the price I mentioned referred to. Apologies - blame it on multi-tasking. No Corona for me tonight.

Which is why, I hate to say, there is a point when these discussions need to happen off-line... Putting all of this out there can potentially give a savvy dealer more info than you want them to have. Because it's a different brand in this case it may not be an issue, but you never know. (What we need is a password-protected site for vetted members so we can have this kind of useful discourse and support without compromising any buyer's position)

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Hey Sierra,

I didn't mean that Brett should hide anything about his position on the deal - I just wouldn't put any focus on it with the dealer.

Dealers -- cars, boats, motorcycles will take a tidbit of info and try to see what means the most to you... monthly payment, price, interest rate, term, etc. Sometimes this is actually good. But, I think Brett is savvy enough to not lead the dealer on. Plus - all those numbers flying around, people tend to get caught up in the moment and lose sight of something until it's too late. (Not saying that Brett is by any means) -- but I know I do when I'm in positions like that. I try to stick to the basics.

LIke where the dealer came up with 1100/month? That math doesn't add up, so the dealer probably used other numbers from something they took note of along the way.

Bottom line -- Brett only really cares about 2 things. Trade in value for the 248 and the purchase price of the boat. He's more than capable of tweaking everything else along the way to fit.

But - I don't think anything we've discussed is considered "private". We're just trying to help and understand his situation.

I don't think the numbers he's hoping for are unrealistic. It's not like he's trying to uber lowball the dealer to a point of ridiculous - but he definitely wants the best deal he can get.

I would love a dealer to go online.

Wouldn't it be crazy if the sales manager posted about Brett's deal? HA! Then we could all give him a bunch of crap and threaten to blackball the dealer for being overpriced!

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

2008 310 Chap, downsouth.

http://www.yachtbroker.com/boat-ad/disp ... id/1348190

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I got ya' Cougar. I'm just saying that I have been involved with deals in the past where a dealer wanted to know if and what I owed on my trade presuming they would use that info in part to decide where they would come in on a trade. Add that to 'this is how much I would like my payments to be each month' and 'this is what I have in the bank' and I do believe you are compromising your leverage - the same way it would for the dealer if we really knew down to the dollar how much a boat costs him, what the true incentive numbers are from the manufacturer and how badly in the grand scheme of things he needs to clear it from his floor plan.

That's why I fully agree with you about keeping the dealing to the two numbers you mentioned. I just think there is some info that Brett has shared which, while it has been helpful in this dialogue, would also be helpful ammo for the dealer.

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Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I hear what Sierra is saying, while it's highly unlikely they would see this. If they did, then I would just walk to another brand. At this point I "don't have" to buy anything. I am not tire kicking in that, if the right deal is made, then I will be in a new boat. If the right deal does not come along then I will simply put my 248 up for sale privately, sell it and then resume boat shopping.

It's kind of nice that the Chap dealer is the marina where I launch, I don't want to buy a boat of this size that there isn't a near by dealer for (that does account for something when we are talking about a boat that isn't just easily trailerable if the need arose.

I am going to see if I can schedule with them to meet this Saturday and discuss those two numbers. If we can't reach any agreement after this meeting I will kindly thank them for their time and I will move along.

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Brett DiMichele

Well said Brett. In the end, that is the best position to be in of all.

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

Brett - those interest rates sound high. Have you looked into a secured line of credit against your home? I have a huge untouched line at 3%. The nice thing is once you have set one up you never have to talk to the bank again when you need some cash. There is a sense of comfort having it there if you need it and you can make payments when you want and pay it off with lump sums without penalty. Its actually good for your credit rating to get approved for one and then not abusing it.

Now if I could only talk the wife into a nice 318...

Good luck with your shopping!

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2008 H210SS Yellow VP 5.7 GXi 320 HP (sold May 2010)
2008 Mercedes ML 320 CDI Diesel

What sort of Destination and "Dealer make ready" charges did you guys with the 30+ boats get nailed with?

If I factor in the sales tax at 6% and $3500/$4000 in dest and prep charges (the numbers the dealer threw out there) then I am right back up to a $1000 a month payment.

This just isn't going to happen, no matter how I seem to slice it, the numbers just don't work.

I think I am just going to sell my 248 and move on.... I can't afford what I want, I bust my ass and I was told today I am taking a 2.5% paycut lord knows what's next...

I'm just tired of it... I think it's time to sell all the "stuff" I am right side up on and just sit back for a while.

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Brett DiMichele

I have been quietly watching this thread shaking my head thinking "What is he thinking in this economy?" A deal is a deal only to those that can pay cash or a significant amount in cash. toys have to be easily dispensible should you need to eliminate the payment and we don't want to be "upside down" or it defeats the purpose of the liquidation.

It seems that you don't use your boat that much anyways so you probably won't miss it.
I too am tired of working 60-70 hours a week to make less than the union guys I employ that work a 36 hour work week with absolutely no responsibilty or care other than "Where's my pay cheque?"

My boat is paid for but I do have other debt that is the same value as the boat. I have been thinking of selling my boat and my tractor so I will only have my mortgage left as debt...I fear my job seems to be on the verge of disappearing completely (that's what happens when you devote your life to a "family business" that is not your own.

The anguish I am feeling is quite depressing and I am having a hard time to stay positive in all aspects of my life so maybe a little re-shuffle is in order to help clear my mind.

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Marc, Kathlin & Nathalie


'89 Chaparral Laser 32

'93 Vista 245, 5.8L w/ King Cobra

Former Boats
'01 H260, 7.4 VP Duoprop
'98 H200, 5.0 GL w/VP SX drive

Remember guys... boating is a hobby... a pastime... and something you tend to do with friends and family.

It's a very nice 'luxury', but sure not a must-have.

Brett--- just like cars, boats have a destination charge. But - there shouldn't be a prep fee.

On my 318, the inland freight charge built into the MSRP/sticker of the boat was $6769. That's apparently how much it "cost" to get the boat from the factory to Seattle (or any dealer around the country).

It varies by size obviously - but it is part of the purchase package.

Your dealer should have put that in as part of the "purchase price". If they start tacking on anything other than taxes/licensing - then walk away or call BS.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Thanks for all the info you have provided Cougar, and everyone else!

I decided to drop the Chap dealer from my list, they just are not reasonable yet, and obviously no body told them how bad the market is, and the economy is..

So last night I got on my Doral Venezia kick again... Last time I looked the Venezia was absurdly priced at 160K MSRP (kind of ridiculous for a boat a little bigger than my vista but for 90K ? Not so bad...

Emailed Dolphin Yacht Sales in Cape Coral FL last night... The boat is sold...

I honestly want to rip my hair out...

When the Venezia hit the market I fell in love with the boat, it really is what I would like my next step to be.. It's like my 248 in that, it's trailerable but it's a foot more of beam, a hard top, and a gen set...

And when I search the entire internet? Nadda......

Ohhh well back to the drawing board I guess...

Does anyone else make a 9'6" ish beam in the 26/29 foot range with a single I/O and a Genset and a table up front?

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Brett DiMichele

<Cough Cough> The Sea Ray 280 can be had with a single 496 and is about 31' long with a 9.5 beam.

I also have to give alot of credit to the new Sea Ray 270... They did a very nice job on that boat as well.

Brett -- Think hard about a 318.

FW is also coming out with a new 30' for the upcoming year. Might be worth waiting until 2010s come up and you can spend your spring/summer trying to find a buyer for your boat.

At least in Washington, trading in a boat has it's sales tax credit advantages. We only pay tax on the difference between trade in price and purchase price (because we already paid sales tax on the trade in boat).

You are in a great position with an awesome boat. Try to find it a new home... and then - you'll really kick in the new boat hunt to high gear and remove the trade in factor from consideration

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA

Cougar,

Yep the 248 is up for sale.. I will use it through this season and hope to find a home for it so that when I sit down to buy, the ball is fully in my court. Sea Ray doesn't make my list, I do not like SeaRay's boats... I wish there were more of these damned Venezia's out there, I think they may have sold like 3 hulls.... And I heard they are going out of biz... It's a shame they priced themselves out of existance because they do make a quality cruiser with unique lines, and there really isn't another boat like the Venezia (I've said this before).

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Brett DiMichele

Brett --- also -- don't be afraid to write down your offer and expectations. Attach a business card. Hand it to the sales manager in person with the tag line:

"I am looking for a larger boat and am ready to pull the trigger today. I believe my offer is more than fair given today's economic conditions - if you guys change your mind, call me"

Shake their hand. face to face. Let them know you mean business. May not happen today - but when they have to pay another month of flooring on that boat, that sales manager may flip a u-turn.

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2008 318 Vista -SOLD, but I am still around!
All Night Long, Seattle WA